Toyota Creating a "New" Performance orientated sub brand.

Motor Trend recently decided that the ~4300lb   Lexus LC was a better driver's car than:

• McLaren 570GT.
• Mazda MX-5 Miata RF Club.
• Nissan GT-R NISMO.
• Aston Martin DB11.

Considering that's basically only the second swing they've taken at producing a non-exotic driver's car (i.e. not an LFA that's so expensive that it underwhelms at its price point in spite of its excellence) in the modern era and that the LC is obviously not even primarily a sports car, I'd say they're on the right track.  I believe that Toyota will produce some very desirable drivers' cars in the next 5-10 years. 

Whether the brand itself will succeed, i don't know. But i do know that i give zero E36 M3s about the brand  difference between a Scion FR-S and a Toyota 86. In that sense it's easy to say that the cars matter, but the brands really don't.

Vigo said:

Motor Trend recently decided that the ~4300lb   Lexus LC was a better driver's car than:

• McLaren 570GT.
• Mazda MX-5 Miata RF Club.
• Nissan GT-R NISMO.
• Aston Martin DB11.

Considering that's basically only the second swing they've taken at producing a non-exotic driver's car (i.e. not an LFA that's so expensive that it underwhelms at its price point in spite of its excellence) in the modern era and that the LC is obviously not even primarily a sports car, I'd say they're on the right track.  I believe that Toyota will produce some very desirable drivers' cars in the next 5-10 years. 

Whether the brand itself will succeed, i don't know. But i do know that i give zero E36 M3s about the brand  difference between a Scion FR-S and a Toyota 86. In that sense it's easy to say that the cars matter, but the brands really don't.

I'm fairly certain that just means Motor Trend will also start reviewing washing machines and dishwashers. Look at that list and tell me you really believe that.

In reply to ultraclyde :

I was trying to think of a polite way to say that Motor Trend, and that list and claim, were garbage, but failing at my attempt at tact. 

Thank you.  

I've driven the LC500H, and it's an impressive $100K machine.  It's sexy, comfy, pretty speedy, and capable.   That said, ANY MX-5 is a much more engaging DRIVING experience.   The LC500H may deliver a more impressive interface experience,  but when it comes to steering feel, chassis engagement, and the connection between human and machine----- the MX-5 murders it.  I haven't had a chance to drive the other high-dollar cars on that list, but for pure driving enjoyment, I'll take an MX-5, M2, BRZ, or Cayman over the Lexus any day.  

Sorry Motor Trend......can't agree with  you on this one.  

In other news, Motor Trend is going/has gone the way of everyone else and will accept large sums of money for favorable reviews about your car.

John Welsh said:

In reply to Stefan :

Some basic marketing, just remember the more and louder they try to tell you something is X, the less likely it is X. 

Agreed, I use the same rule-of-thumb for politicians.

FuzzWuzzy said:

In other news, Motor Trend is going/has gone the way of everyone else and will accept large sums of money for favorable reviews about your car.

Is going? I recall a lot of payola accusations were lobbed at them during the '80s, and I've seen some issues from that era that would be difficult to explain otherwise.

I'll just leave this here.....

Arggh! If an award like that came out now, I'd propose a lifetime ban for the voters. Send them to CR and let them test sewing machines.

Go figure the only poster on this page proven currently capable of pulling a paycheck from a car mag is the only one showing any tact towards the work of other auto journalists. I may be the only one here who actually read the opinions of the many journalists involved in the voting/judging but instead of regurgitating it i'll leave the rest of you to react in ignorance of whatever basis they had for their opinions (such as driving each car and hundreds of others), or less likely, choose to go read it yourselves. 

The only one that surprised me landing under the LC (after mulling over the explanations offered) was the DB11. MT has gushed over it in every other piece up to this point, and it's also the most direct competitor in terms of being a very conventional GT. The McClaren is just a worse version of a car previously tested, as is the Miata RF. They're both adaptations of cars whose other versions are more focused on sporting driving. The GT-R really has never been a top contender for subjective driving enjoyment. It's been almost 10 years of people calling it a heavy, brutish performer that generally makes you feel as if it wouldn't work without its computers (i.e. doesn't make the driver feel like the hero).  So, with that in mind, those results draw to my mind an almost direct comparison of the LC and DB11 as drivers cars, and that is where the result surprises me. 

Would it be less offensive to the GRM peanut gallery if i offered up the GS-F as more proof that Toyota already knows how to make enjoyable, well-regarded drivers' cars? Even the FRS/86 is mostly maligned in hindsight of how its competitors progressed when it did not. It was a damn sight sharper than the NC it competed against at launch. I suppose the main question posed by the FRSBRZ86 is whether this time around Toyota will bother to substantially update a niche low-end product whose sales begin dropping shortly after launch. If not, then Toyota had better come out swinging with their next cheap sports car or the enthusiast proletariat will simultaneously bash Toyota for building a sports car with a 'glaring flaw' while also buying them used and then cheaply addressing the issue and ending up with great cars, no thanks to Toyota!!

Hay I had a new alliance and for what it was new compaired to many other similar cars of that market segment it was the best. It did not help that it self destructed in a matter of five years and less than 50k miles but new car compared to another new cars (i am looking at you ford). The Aliance was a great little skate board.   And they also had the GTA. That was a fantastic car when new. 

In reply to dean1484 :

honestly, 1983 was NOT a good year for cars. That was the year my Parent's 1980 Aspen stationwagon rusted to the point of being unsafe and was traded in on a new Mercury. Growing pains all around as Carbs started to vanish for injection, Cats became more efficient, and the big three were starting to take Japanese cars seriously.

Vigo said:

Go figure the only poster on this page proven currently capable of pulling a paycheck from a car mag is the only one showing any tact towards the work of other auto journalists.

Unless I'm incredibly dense, I think you missed the point of the post above yours.

I test drove a fully loaded current gen camry v6 xse a couple of days ago. As one who has owned '85 and '95 camrys and regularly drives a '15 Camry I was very impressed. It felt--dare I say it--germanic. Responsive steering and firm but comfortable ride with well checked body roll. I was shocked. (No pun intended). I left thinking the Camry v6 is now an aspirational car for me for dd duty.

To put it another way, it was more fun to drive on the street than my former '07 Civic Si on konis, with 22mm rear anti roll bar and on Michelin PSS. It is possible that driving an '08 Prius for the last year and all that torque from the V6 may have clouded my judgement but on the street the camry was fun to drive. Went home and checked; the Camry has quicker steering than my former si. For 35k there are other cars I would prefer but it was not a let down at all. 

Toyota is slowly succeeding in banishing boring cars. Lexus' IS, GS and LS  are all less boring to drive (and some may say look at) than their predecessors as are the Toyota Prius and Camry. Styling on the other hand...

Tl,Dr the 2018 Camry xse v6 is very good.

Styling is obviously subjective, but I absolutely hate that gawdawful "spindle" grille treatment that Lexus has decided is its "brand identity".