Toyota MR2 Mk1 vs Mk2?

The MR2 has always been a bucket list car of mine. Getting closer to play car shopping again and they're on the list. Looking for something primarily to do HPDEs with, maybe an occasional weekend jaunt with SWMBO (Mk3 is out for this reason, no room for even a duffel bag with two people onboard).

How does the Mk1 stack up to the Mk2 for track work? If I end up going with the Mk1 it will either be supercharged or almost immediately receive a 20v swap, as the lowly 16v 4A-GE just isn't quick enough to keep up with traffic at Road America, where I'd be running frequently. If Mk2, I would be hunting for a turbo car, though the Beams 3S-GE is also appealing as I love high-revving screamers. Either way though, no base NA cars. I know some of you here are well-versed in one or both cars, what's your opinion?

Also, side note: is the early Mk2 handling as dangerous as the internet seems to claim it is? Everyone makes it sound like stuffing it into a wall is inevitable with the pre-revision rear suspension. All of my prior track days were run in a BMW E46, so I'll be a mid-engine noob, but I know to treat them with respect and be careful about lifting off mid-corner...

I just want to be sure that you know this exisits in the Mk3.

I loved my '88 SC. I never truly tracked it but did autox it. It was not more dangerous than my Miata's handling just different with the light front end.

At 6'1" and 32 inseam I had to replace the steering wheel with a 13.5" version in order to have comfortable seating. I first tried a 13" but it was too small. Like Goldilocks, I then found that 13.5" was just right.

I owned a road race '85 MR2, and they definitely are not dangerous. Do they require a different driving style, yes. I've owned maybe a dozen MR2s total in all flavors, and drove a MR2 Turbo as a DD for 7 years in the '90's. If I were to pick one as a fun track toy, the MK1 for sure, but it would not be faster than the turbo. I remember running a test and tune with a friend's ITS 240Z, and ran a few laps also with my MR2 Turbo. It was easily faster. By contrast, my ITA MR2 was over 1.5 seconds back of the 240 when we ran the same event once.

One thing I would caution though is to be careful in your shock choice. You definitely want to stay clear of shocks with a lot of compression as it makes the car nervous. For me, Konis always seemed to work best as they allowed the car to soak up the bumps without throwing it all over the place. In a mid engine car this is important. Of course you have to keep in mind to match the shocks to your spring choice too if you are going custom valving. But avoid a lot of compression.

The 2 cars are very different, I had a 85 aw11 and it was an amazing little car but very dated and has a small after market. It can best be described as a mid engine ae86 and it did like to get sideways if you lifted mid corner but if you got it right the handling was amazing. The SW20 on the other hand is early 90's and still has a decent after market, it's larger more comfortable and most are rust free but they seem to do a lot better on bigger tracks. Drive both and pick the one you like.

My Old Girl

I've had both MK1 and MK2 also. They're quite different. The MK1 is a go kart, the MK2 is a GT style car. Yeah, the MK1 would have to be whipped mercilessly to keep up at Road Atlanta...I know what it's like to run slow there. I ran my 95hp LeMons truck there in a run group that had Ferrari, Mustang, etc... The handling of the MK1 certainly will require you pay attention, but it's far from "dangerous". Like most mid-engine cars, it can be prone to snap oversteer if you're ham fisted.

To me, the MK1 is better suited to autox (I ran a bunch in one) and the MK2, especially in turbo form, is a better track car.

I was one of the first people to put a 20v in a MK1. Probably the first to do it with a factory ECU. It was a good car and plenty fast. I have driven a MK2 NA and would definitely hold out for the turbo.

One of my friends has a Mk1. The first time he drove my Mk2 he said, "I'm kind of disapointed...it's like a normal car," meaning it doesn't have the...character? that is the Mk1 interior ergonomics.

I have owned the mk 2 and 3 and spent a bit of time in a mk 1 many years ago. I would make the mk 3 work. If that is really off the table then it just depends on what you want. Quick and light or substantial and powerful. Last time I checked, the mk 2 has better parts support.

I have both an 87 and a 91. For out right speed, the 91 will win. I started off in solo II with the 91 but the modification bug hit and I classed myself out. So, I went to the local Porsche Club events where I was asked to never return due to the humiliation the Porsche owners felt when losing to a Toyota. The car currently uses a lot of older parts as I've had it since 98. Tokico adjustables, H&R race springs, TRD sway and strut tower bars, urethane bushings, heim joints at all the manor points, but the thing that made so mean are the brakes--MKIV Supra rotors with Wilwood calipers in front and the only Border Racing big rear brake kit that was ever actually sold--to my knowledge.

Don't discount the NA MKI. The 4AGE may not start with much but if you go for a solid build, it's a beautiful engine. I prefer it over the 20V and 4agze. I can't leave anything alone so mine has been warmed over. Shocks on a MKI are crucial and I would only recommend adjustable Konis.

Weak spots-- both cars mount their sway bars to the strut tubes. These mounts fatigue and rip off at bad moments. I highly recommend you reinforce these mounts on either model. The dreaded snap oversteer is not the car's fault, it's the driver's. If you've never driven one and try to run flat out immediately, you will spin. These are mid engine cars and they behave as such. You can't bring the car back from major oversteer by doing anything except smashing the gas to the floor and being quick with the countersteer. If you lift or do other ham fisted things you will see a lot of time in the sand traps.

The oil cooler in a MKI MR2 sucks. Do not listen to anyone that says otherwise. I was seeing oil temps over 250F just cruising the highway. I installed an air to air oil cooler with a fan where the battery normally goes. Air actually comes into the MR2 from the bottom and exits the top. Once I had the oil cooler installed I rarely see over 190F even running hard in summer weather.

It's hard to get a lot of tire under a MKI. That alone is a disadvantage if you want to win. The MKI is more fun to drive partly because it has less tire. The MKII can be made into quite a beast but doing so makes its limits so high you'll only find them on a track.

God dang it....(goes to search CL)

Both cars have a disadvantage when it comes to the aftermarket support, there just isn't that much out there anymore so you have to see if you can find good used parts and otherwise buy stuff from the few reputable vendors that sell parts for them that are worth having.

If you're after the less dangerous '93 Turbo, someone who awfully looks like me is about to get his low-mileage one ready for sale.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

That is a beautiful car but you could probably sell it on MR2OC for far more than my cheap ass would cough up for it!

Also, most seem to have missed the intent of my question at the end of the first post; the '91-92 Mk2 rear suspension has a reputation for nutso snap oversteer vs the revised '93-up design, but some also say the earlier cars are more capable in the hands of the right driver, just with a much lower margin of error. Anyone have any knowledge on this subject?

I never had any issues with my 91. It was a great car to drive. I didn't do much in the way of mods with mine. It just had konis and 94 stock springs.

It was a lot different than the 87 NA my friend owned. To me it was 2 completely different cars. They drove so different. I loved my 91 except for the T-Tops. Even after new seals and a lot of work, I'd still get drips. If it was a slicktop, it would probably still be in my garage.

The 3rd gen drove a lot like the 1st gen and is on my short list as possible next toys.

I loathe Toyota and have a soft spot for the Mk 2.

I learned to drive a 5 speed in one, I fit, and just remember that lift off understeer is great if you jab the throttle right after it starts, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ahh...A topic I could ramble on all day. I've had 14 of them.

MR2 is not the easy button. There are cheaper, faster, lighter, easier cars to go fast in. Most of those cars are also safer and more practical.

MR2s are heavy. Much heavier than they look. That's how Toyota builds stuff. There are 4 firewalls. If you look at a stripped out one, the unibody segments have 2x the corrugations of a Honda. This is why the CRX mopped the floor with the them when they were new.

Both the AW11 and SW20 are a lot louder inside than a modern car. If you've never spent some time in one, this becomes apparent when you try to talk on the phone. Cell phones weren't a thing when these cars were new.

The AW11 is easier to drive at it's limit than the SW20, but the SW20 has a much higher limit.

AW11 trim parts are NLA and the trim is lower quality than the SW20. There are more trim parts on an AW11. If you're a perfectionist, this will bug you.

My fastest MR2 was a 93 with a Gen3 3SGTE, dyno'd 292whp stock. Ran a quarter mile in 13 flat. My craziest MR2 was an 85 with a Gen2 3SGTE. My highest return on investment / rarest MR2 was a 1994 Turbo that I bought for $5700 from a new car trade and sold for $10,500.

My best driving MR2 and the formula I would repeat: 1992 Turbo chassis with ABS and power steering. Koni shocks, H&R springs. Poly bushings on the front and rear 'strut rods' only. New OEM lower control arms/bushings. 1MZ-fe V6, coupled with the Turbo gearbox.

Edit: Accusump. Gotta have an accusump on the 1MZ. Ask GRM about it. ;) Oh, and Carbotech XP10 pads.

Here's a from AMP right after I put the V6 in. I was instructing with HoD and took it out for a shakedown. With age comes a cage....pedaling it down the back straight in a new car with stock belts and no bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_1nH_umqeU

I love my 88 SC MK1 (so many letters), and if I found a good deal on an MK2 I'd probably get it. Only rallycrossed the prior MK1, this one I tried an autocross the end of the summer and learned what lift-off oversteer was. But after a few laps I loved it!

I have a good friend that does SCCA Club Racing in his MK1 and is quite successful at it. As for is the handling as dangerous as the internet trolls make it out to be? No.

Jerry wrote: As for is the handling as dangerous as the internet trolls make it out to be? No.

^This, i autocrossed my 87 aw11 several times and after 1 or 2 events you learn how the car reacts to different throttle and braking inputs.

Like someone said before in this thread, its real fun to thottle off, get lift oversteer, then lay back into it with some counter steer and let it slide

edizzle89 wrote:

Jerry wrote: As for is the handling as dangerous as the internet trolls make it out to be? No.

^This, i autocrossed my 87 aw11 several times and after 1 or 2 events you learn how the car reacts to different throttle and braking inputs. Like someone said before in this thread, its real fun to thottle off, get lift oversteer, then lay back into it with some counter steer and let it slide

Most of my 25 autocross years were spent in mid engine cars. either a much modified X1/9 or a host of MR2s. If you can't drive the car with the throttle, you aren't having fun!

Seriously, a mid or rear engine car adds so much fun to autocross and track work. It's a different but to me at least, a much more satisfying experience.

with no mods the 16V is a bit slow for todays conditions... but it doesn't take a whole lot to get it right. I'm making 20V power in my 16V... and besides exceptional machining, there are only a few performance parts in it - mild cam, valve springs, and light mass wrist pins, the rest is all stock.

I'd do some reading up... there is a different character to the S/C models, something to be aware of...

Don't forget the MK 1.5. Take a Mk1 and put a 3SGTE in it. Or the twincharged. Turbocharge the 4AGZE.

I am getting the bits together for my 3SGTE RAV4. Just about have it all now.