Javelin wrote:Dr. Hess wrote: QFTQuoted for lie.
Wait, QFT means Quoted For Truth? I thought it was Quit Berkeleying Trying. You guys sounded so mean.....
Javelin wrote:Dr. Hess wrote: QFTQuoted for lie.
Wait, QFT means Quoted For Truth? I thought it was Quit Berkeleying Trying. You guys sounded so mean.....
I hate Toyota, but
I find Toyota loyalists to be about as dumb as my Ford/Chevy fans here in the south.
"My (insert brand here) is the best ever and your (insert slur about manufacture) piece of E36 M3 sucks."
All have made some dogs. I haven't seen a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge truck frame rust through in under 30 years (there are a few exceptions for the salt mine trucks) Toyota, in Tennessee, I have seen 7.
Toyota has an issue on this one. All them, but if you want I will bash the domestics for you to.
Ford/Chevy have owners that on average have less education. (Although Ford is the #1 brand driven by millionaires.)
Happy?
kevlarcorolla wrote: Up here in the frozen/salted north I've been seeing TONS of rotted out full size dodges(maybe 5 years old tops),think they'll ever step up and fix or buy them back?.
Most tow trucks around here are Ford or Chevy, I wonder why that is?
Trans_Maro wrote:kevlarcorolla wrote: Up here in the frozen/salted north I've been seeing TONS of rotted out full size dodges(maybe 5 years old tops),think they'll ever step up and fix or buy them back?.Most tow trucks around here are Ford or Chevy, I wonder why that is?
There are more 350+ Fords and Chevys made? You can get them dirt cheap? More Ford and Chevy dealerships? Seeing as how Dodge was making a big deal about offering a chassis cab not that long ago, I'm going to guess and say they haven't for very long. I'm not entirely certain, but I think the 4500s and 5500s they're currently selling are the first bigger than 35whatever that Dodge has sold since at least the 70s, and even those were on the scale of current internationals and the like.
Around here most serious tow trucks are internationals followed by 350 and up Superdoodys, but there's a Ford dealer right outside of town.
kevlarcorolla wrote: Up here in the frozen/salted north I've been seeing TONS of rotted out full size dodges(maybe 5 years old tops),think they'll ever step up and fix or buy them back?. Not a snowballs chance in hell.I applaud toyota for fixing their mistakes instead of looking the other way.
Uh huh. Suuuuure., Toyota never looks the other way. 
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Additional+Information+on+Toyota+Recalls+and+Investigations
"Toyota Will Pay Additional $32.425 Million as Result of 2 DOT Investigations
Dec. 20: Toyota has agreed to pay an additional $32.425 million in civil penalties as the result of two separate investigations into the automaker's handling of auto recalls. Toyota will pay the maximum fines allowable under the law - $16.375 million in one case and $16.050 million in the other - in response to the Department's assertion that it failed to comply with the requirements of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act for reporting safety defects to NHTSA."
"Timeliness of 2005 Toyota Steering Relay Rod Recall Under Investigation
May 10: NHTSA opened an investigation into whether, in 2005, Toyota notified the agency of a steering relay rod safety defect within five business days of learning of the defect’s existence, as is required by law. In 2004, Toyota conducted a recall in Japan for Hilux trucks with steering relay rods prone to fatiguing, cracking and possibly breaking, causing the vehicle to lose steering control. At that time, Toyota informed NHTSA that the safety defect was isolated to vehicles in Japan and that the company had not received similar field information within the United States. In 2005, however, Toyota informed NHTSA the steering relay rod defect was present in several models sold in the U.S. and conducted a recall."
I was the one with the rusting control arms on my expedition. I did go to the dealer with this and was basically said. "Hay it is a 10 year old ford" My answer was if some one gets dead because of this you may sing a different tune. The manager was not so happy after that comment. I am going to have to replace the uppers soon as well.
The good side of things is the frame on my expedition seems to be in good shape. I am going to power wash the undercarriage this spring and go nuts with the POR. I would really like another 50-75K out of this truck. Every ford I have had has made it to over 200K.
Link to my bit of fun http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/what-was-ford-thinking-rusted-drag-links-2000-expe/39669/page1/
Javelin wrote:kevlarcorolla wrote: Up here in the frozen/salted north I've been seeing TONS of rotted out full size dodges(maybe 5 years old tops),think they'll ever step up and fix or buy them back?. Not a snowballs chance in hell.I applaud toyota for fixing their mistakes instead of looking the other way.Uh huh. Suuuuure., Toyota *never* looks the other way.
That's not what he said. 
But hey, it's the internet.
Should we similarly twist your statement to mean that Toyota is the only manufacturer that has ever looked the other way?
This is why these discussions are dumb.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: This is why these discussions are dumb.
He he he he.. . . It makes for some good saterday morning reading with a cup of coffie. 
No kidding.
I can't decide which is worse. The Toyota fanbois or the rabid Toyota haters.
Subaru is doing a recall on 02 impreza's that had the steel front control arms. Basically if they've rotted out, you'll get new ones, if not they'll put a rust inhibitor coating on them. I don't think the arms any different than previous versions. My guess is the NHSTA is getting more aggressive with this sort of stuff, which is kind of an alarming precedent.
I'm neither a toyota fanboy nor hater,I've owned vehicles from damn near every manufactor-toyota,honda and nissan stand as some of the best I've owned(of course each maker has models better/worse than others).Dodge and subaru both left me hanging on new car warranty issues so I won't own either of those again.
In reply to kevlarcorolla:
Here is my list
Ford: No issues that weren't my fault 
Chevy: Horrible running thing (S10) multiple transmissions (auto) Caprice had the dash odometer going in and out.
Honda Auto transmission at 89K, windshield wiper motor, sunroof
Toyota: split rack and pinion, engine sludge, rear springs (recalled so no foul)
Nissan: NONE
Mazda: power steering rack issue (under recall)
Jeep: Bad manual trans (I knew how to shift this one, it was the 2.5 manual rear nut issue)
BMW: None yet (not had long enough to judge)
Subaru: engine, seals, transmission, bearing (this was the biggist pain I have owned.) I want to like subbie I really do but I just can't anymore.
My hatred of Toyota comes from the rack and pinion split. The reason it split was a cost cutting measure by Toyota in a nickel piece of metal. I know as an engineer that this is irrational on some levels but when it is your wife and kids primary transportation you don't forgive such cost cutting measures so easily. I also don't like the way the new ones drive. I can't stand the feel.
Trans_Maro wrote:kevlarcorolla wrote: Up here in the frozen/salted north I've been seeing TONS of rotted out full size dodges(maybe 5 years old tops),think they'll ever step up and fix or buy them back?.Most tow trucks around here are Ford or Chevy, I wonder why that is?
That is an interesting point.
Here I see Ford, Chevy, Dodge (only two), International and Isuzu.
Who I haven't seen is Hino (Toyota). They have a direct competitor to the International and Isuzu but I never see them. I wonder why? (it's not cost or service network either.)
An interesting side note, Tennessee has a law that municipalities ambulances can only be Ford or International. Private companies can run what they want but not the state chartered ones.
Btw I'm only talking about 1/2 or 3/4 ton pick-ups and by far dodge is the worst for body cancer here that I see.I have an '07 F150 for work and its got quite a lot of peeling paint but no rust...yet.the dodges of about the same vintage have holes all around the front and rear wheel archs,cab corners and rockers.Those trucks aren't worth even thinking about imo,never had an incling to crawl under one to look at the frames. The lack of quality parts in the ford front suspension is pretty disgusting,went thru 2 sets of upper control arms in under 100k(thats only 60,000 miles).They replaced the 1st set under warranty,I replaced the 2nd set with moog just recently.Btw when I say they were worn I don't mean a little play I'm talking at least 1/4" slop.
I have a 95 dodge full size. Weirdest vehicle I've ever seen in terms of rust. Some parts rusted straight through. Other parts looks factory new. Wheel arches are toast on the bed. Crawl under the truck and look at the floor of the bed....pristine. :shrug:
My cousin had his Tacoma frame replaced last year free under this program or a similar one. His truck is 8-9 years old and he had a loaner car for a month while his was at the shop.
I bought a first-year Tacoma (95.5) with the 2.7 in it. After warranty was expired, clutch fan started making an odd sound; Toyota replaced it for free. That was the only issue I ever had with that truck. Sold it for nearly what I paid new, guy bought it without even test driving it. I even hauled a slide-in camper with it, plenty of power, great mileage. Since then I have almost always had at least one Toyota. Not a "fan-boy", but I appreciate the time and energy they save me, and how easy they are to work on. J
While I was in Texas, a friend of mine there fron New York put his 90s Tacoma in for the recall... the Texas dealer literally shat himself, both in seeing the rust and never having done the recall before.
They paid him 1.5x retail in excellent condition and gave him a rental car for months while they figured out what to do. Not a bad gig, if you ask me. He bought another Tacoma with the money.
FlightService wrote: I also don't like the way the new ones drive. I can't stand the feel.
what feel?
failboat wrote:FlightService wrote: I also don't like the way the new ones drive. I can't stand the feel.what feel?
exactly
Osterkraut wrote: They paid him 1.5x retail in excellent condition and gave him a rental car for months while they figured out what to do.
Again, because that's what the NHTSA recall is forcing them to do. Toyota did not pick the 1.5x figure, they did. Ford has to do the same for the Windstars it doesn't want to fix. Toyota and Ford both deserve absolutely zero praise for their programs.
Honestly, I wish the NHTSA would be even harder on rust in this day and age. The fellow GRM'er with the corroded Expedition rear suspension pieces is a good example of why I feel that way. We have the technology, and it's not that expensive.
huh. my 1987 f150 still has the original frame.. seems to be holding up ok. :D
it seems people are going to see this issue however they want, regardless of the facts. bottom line is, if toyota were really concerned about the frame rust issue, they wouldn't have waited until the trucks were 8-10 years old to start fixing things. also i've never seen a [not toyota] truck less than 15 years old rust out bad enough to collapse under its own weight.
Datsun1500 wrote:Javelin wrote: Again, because that's what the NHTSA recall is forcing them to do. Toyota did not pick the 1.5x figure, they did. Ford has to do the same for the Windstars it doesn't want to fix. Toyota and Ford *both* deserve absolutely *zero* praise for their programs. Honestly, I wish the NHTSA would be even harder on rust in this day and age. The fellow GRM'er with the corroded Expedition rear suspension pieces is a good example of why I feel that way. We have the technology, and it's not that expensive.Maybe it's me but I think they should get some credit. Out of warranty is out of warranty. It's one of the reasons car manufacturers brag about long warranties (ala Hyundai) to say we have you covered for longer. If the NHTSA is going to force you to cover something that is not under warranty, why bother having one at all?
Huh? Do you understand what recalls are? They are to correct defects that affect safety, and have always covered out-of-warranty vehicles. The NHTSA says that over half of all recalls involve out of warranty vehicles. Warranties cover defects and premature wear issues for all components, and have zero bearing on an NHTSA investigation or recall. Toyota deserves negative credit for this, if anything. (Same for Ford on the Windstar)
Some parts of a car/truck you expect to last a long time...warranty or not (should an engine or transmission last JUST as long as they are warrantied for?), the frame is one of them.
In my opinion, it's pointless to buy a vehicle with a warranty that is waay longer than their competitor's warranties...if the company and/or the dealers just ignore problems that customers bring them. Knock wood, I've never had a vehicle (that I know of) that had to be recalled, with the exception of my Pinto...and I managed to sell that BEFORE Ford decided to do something about the gas tanks.
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