Toyota's orphaned homologation nugget is out

And by all accounts it sounds like it doesn't disappoint. Overbraked, proper power split front to rear, available limited slip for the front and rear, stiffened chassis, awd turbo nugget. 

Is it 2045 yet? I want to import one. 

I know why we're not getting it, but I'm still sad. Happy that there is still the will/ability at Toyota to make this even if they don't deploy it often enough. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

It was definitely strictly a homologation effort. Apparently the only thing shared with the Yaris is the headlamps, taillamps, mirrors and antenna. The hood, doors and hatch are all aluminum, it has functional brake ducts, the hood it notched for travel of pneumatic bump stops in case of retrofitting a coilovers fitted with pneumatic bump stops. It's far more proper than I expected it to be when I heard the initial announcement if it's development and upcoming release. 

It's so good, that if the Corolla GR gets all of these bits and it's just bigger I will get one. I just suspect that the Corolla GR will get the engine, transmission, not the differentials, not the brakes, possibly not the ability to control the power split, and will be an impreza alternative instead of something special. I hope that I'm wrong, as if they don't neuter the Corolla GR I'll purchase one, new. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Yea, crossing my fingers. Not sure I'll be in the market to buy one new, but it would be a significant, and welcome, shift in Toyota if they brought us something nice that was all theirs instead of a Subaru/BMW colaboration. 

AMAZING......as he picks up his jaw from the floor 

Homologation for what series?

If it IS a homologation special... I'm looking on in horror.  Those tend to be slapped together with poor finishing touches, just to get some certain parts legal for racing.  (Sometimes it works out okay.... the Escort Cosworth sold so well that they made WAY more than the homologation minimums demanded, so they made the second series with better polish, and a smaller turbo.  The original recipe was, by accounts, frustrating in a lot of ways)

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

IIRC it's for WRC, and they have to make a fair number of them - I vagely recall they have to build 15k or something.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

WRC, the irony being that the car that it was being developed in order to campaign in 2021 was shelved due to covid budget cuts, but the GR continued on as contracts with parts suppliers had been signed and parts production started. 

Took me a bit to track down, but the key is the 3 door shell. You have to have 25,000 of the base car made with 2,500 of the homologation special made. Toyota is discontinuing the 3 door Yaris so there is no base car, so they decided to meet the 25,000 requirement by making all of them the super special homologation version. But then the whole covid thingy so they can't introduce a new shell for next year because of the rules freeze. 

I'm pissed we're not getting this.  Assume Corolla will be fwd lame, just get the turbo I3 which loses some luster in a bigger heavier car.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

IIRC it's for WRC, and they have to make a fair number of them - I vagely recall they have to build 15k or something.

Que???

When did that happen?

The whole thing they were doing was moving to a spec gearbox and stuff to make things cheaper.  And you can make a WRC specific engine (meeting certain dimensional standards) if you do not have a production engine capable of being uplifted.  That is like the opposite of homologated production cars.

Looking through 255J, practically everything compared to the road car is free as long as it meets the "WRC homologation" (meaning the paperwork for the competition car that they say they are going to run).  And even then, they can make mid season changes as long as the change is approved.

Hell, they got rid of Group N and replaced it with S2000 because nobody but Mitsubishi and Subaru made cars like that anymore.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

They need the shell and decided to go bonkers. That's the word anyway. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I get that, but WRCars have been allowed to convert two wheel drive chassis to AWD since 1998, so all they needed was the small hatchback bit.  Saying the GR is a "homologation special" is a bit of a stretch.

Words have MEANING, dangit   You could also claim that the GSL-SE RX-7 was a "homologation special" because MRTE used the fact that it had a 13B to be able to put 13Bs in the Group B car.

GR stuff aside, there's been a serious lack of 3-door hatches on this side of the Atlantic.

I think that's because nobody wants them, though. Even a Veloster would be better with a 4th door. I have a 2100lb 2dr Toyota that i wish was a 4 door, even. 

This car seems really impressive. Really does seem like the perfect car for someone who wants to buy an Evo, except lighter, and a Toyota, and brand new with a warranty in 2020. This is a unique opportunity for the people who have the option to buy it. 

I want that.

GR corolla has been confirmed as FWD.

good FWD hatches area awesome.

I expect good things from the corolla.

i'm glad the yaris is great, but i understand and accept why we won't get it.

 

Ehh.  Pretty tight space there with GTI, Veloster N, CTR. Latter two are 2.0 I4, 30XX lbs, Hyundai with focus on driving fun and Honda with focus on quick laps.  Kind of a shame that as as consumer cars went turbo / AWD, the cool turbo AWD cars went away.  At any rate, hopeful the Corolla GR is able to carve out its own niche.

In reply to turtl631 :

this is under 2900lb, with a proper AWD as a smaller footprint. I know there comparisons are being made to it versus i30N, CTR and Golf R, but that's really like comparing a Golf R or Evo to a Cadillac ATS-V, being that they're a different category of vehicle class and size. The Yaris GR has no competitors within it's class with regards to size, only with regards to price point, which honestly is the case for every vehicle when you factor in the secondary market. 

Oh, to clarify I meant the proposed FWD Corolla GR. The current Corolla hatch is already like 3,100 lb so I am extrapolating specs of a turbo I3 car.  I'm totally with you on the Yaris GR, I might be trying to sell my m3 if it were coming here.  Wish I would have been in the position to buy an Evo 8/9 new.  I need to drive a focus RS at some point too, but it's not a particularly robust small or light car.

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

GR corolla has been confirmed as FWD.

I'm out.

good FWD hatches area awesome.

"Good" meaning under 2000lb or so.  Above that, you need more power than front drive can reliably put down (about 100hp).

I spent a long time last summer driving a base model Focus with the 2 liter nonturbo engine.  The car's biggest failing was that it was so heavy that it needed more power than front drive could handle.  A lot of traffic situations were downright scary because I couldn't accelerate out of potential harm, not due to power, but due to lack of acceleration grip.

Shame this won't be coming to the states. I know it was a fwd but my 09 Yaris 3 door hatch was a great car to own/drive!

It sounds like a very cool car! TorsenLSDs on both ends is pretty unique.

There have been some dynos posted online suggesting the engine is seriously under rated, but the acceleration figures would seem to suggest it isn't.

The 1.5-1.6l engines like this one make me wonder if we're going to see a lot more 3cyl engines. It's a little lighter weight, fewer parts, makes really solid power. It would certainly be possible to size the turbo differently and make more power still without having horrible low rpm output. Do we need the standard 2.0l turbo engines anymore, or is would one class of size up engines suffice? (Eg. 2.4-3l)

While it would be nice if it was a crazy feather weight, sub-3000lbs is getting rare these days. Let's be thankful it exists, even if we can`t buy one. You want light, get a ND. No one else is playing that game anymore.

In reply to Snrub :

I would think that three cylinder engines would offer some pretty good benefits over fours if turbocharging is a foregone conclusion.  The firing spacing is such that there's no exhaust pulse overlap, and the shorter cylinder head also means that the furthest cylinders are closer to the turbo inlet. Even cooling should be simpler.  And the kicker is, if they have a 3 liter V6, they have most of what they need for a 1.5l three pre-engineered and in the existing parts bin, including the camshaft cores.

What is crazy is how valuable anything with a 1.0 Ecoboost is on the used market.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

GR corolla has been confirmed as FWD.

I'm out.

good FWD hatches area awesome.

"Good" meaning under 2000lb or so.  Above that, you need more power than front drive can reliably put down (about 100hp).

no, that's definitely not the case, even without a diff you can work with more than 100hp in a fwd car and with a helical or locking diff your options are wide open up to a much greater power potential.