Track days: Is there such a thing as too safe?

frenchyd said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Are you actually saying that your fire suppression system would have killed you while putting out a fire?

Time 

 I was on the opposite side of the car from being able to activate it. ( by the right rear wheel)  I did the right thing,  stop drop and roll. 
 If I'd tried to activate the system I'd have been dead. 
  

  

No, what you're saying is, that you didn't properly install the the fire suppression system. 

If you're already out of the car, you're safe, berkeley the car. 

In reply to z31maniac :

You need to improve your reading skills.   Or comprehension. The activation for the fire system was easily reached from the drivers seat.  I was working at the right rear.  
         Now let me spray you with gasoline and ignite it.   
 
How long would it take you to get into a position where you activate it and have it extinguish the flames?   
   Or you can do the Stop drop and roll maneuver that I did. 

  Maybe without the formal training the Navy provided me, you might have tried to run around  the car  fanning the flames?  Or dive  over  the cockpit ( fanning flames ).   Here's a picture of the car. 
  Not only did I not get burned. But I didn't have a mess to clean up and the need to find a recharged system  before I could go racing.  
     

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

  How about a rule like NHRA  has?  This fast, this much equipment and safety. Faster , you need more and better.         

I've always been dubious about those kinds of rules, there's nothing magic about those breakpoints as they relate to fire/etc.  It also leads to people sandbagging at the end so as not to go fast enough that they'll get kicked out.

In any event, to the extent that those rules work, it's only because the course is the same everywhere.

Sandbagging just means someone goes only so fast.   At least they are in control.   That's quite a skill. I think it's called bracket racing.  Only able to go so fast?    To go no faster

that a 10.29/9?   Judge things that closely?   
  What if you accidentally go a 10:30/3 ?   Well you lose.  ( and the slower car wins).    One sure thing.  You're in control.  Not likely to be in an accident.  
   Apply the same thing to lap times.  You go under the allowed lap time, you're black flagged. 
       

In reply to steronz :

We are pretty much on the same page; it comes down to comfort level and as you said drawing a line somewhere.  

If we were trying to be really safe we wouldn't participate in this sport at all.

Of course I'm of the opinion that a track day is safer than my commute to work.

frenchyd said:

In reply to z31maniac :

You need to improve your reading skills.   Or comprehension. The activation for the fire system was easily reached from the drivers seat.  I was working at the right rear.  
         Now let me spray you with gasoline and ignite it.   
 
How long would it take you to get into a position where you activate it and have it extinguish the flames?   
   Or you can do the Stop drop and roll maneuver that I did. 

  Maybe without the formal training the Navy provided me, you might have tried to run around  the car  fanning the flames?  Or dive  over  the cockpit ( fanning flames ).   Here's a picture of the car. 
  Not only did I not get burned. But I didn't have a mess to clean up and the need to find a recharged system  before I could go racing.  
     

You need to stop being a condescending prick .

Telling me I need reading comprehension while quoting yourself and saying the opposite. 

You said "I was on the opposite side of the car from being able to activate it." So how am I wrong saying you did a poor job installing it? 

frenchyd said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Are you actually saying that your fire suppression system would have killed you while putting out a fire?

Time 

 I was on the opposite side of the car from being able to activate it. ( by the right rear wheel)  I did the right thing,  stop drop and roll. 
 If I'd tried to activate the system I'd have been dead. 
  

  

Quoted for posterity. 

frenchyd said:

Sandbagging just means someone goes only so fast.

I know what it means as far as the racing rules are concerned, and that's not what I'm talking about.

A car that is built to do 9s but due to sandbagging is only going 12s should have more safety gear requirements than a car that is only built to do 12s.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

But was it a Jaguar?

z31maniac said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to z31maniac :

You need to improve your reading skills.   Or comprehension. The activation for the fire system was easily reached from the drivers seat.  I was working at the right rear.  
         Now let me spray you with gasoline and ignite it.   
 
How long would it take you to get into a position where you activate it and have it extinguish the flames?   
   Or you can do the Stop drop and roll maneuver that I did. 

  Maybe without the formal training the Navy provided me, you might have tried to run around  the car  fanning the flames?  Or dive  over  the cockpit ( fanning flames ).   Here's a picture of the car. 
  Not only did I not get burned. But I didn't have a mess to clean up and the need to find a recharged system  before I could go racing.  
     

You need to stop being a condescending prick .

Telling me I need reading comprehension while quoting yourself and saying the opposite. 

You said "I was on the opposite side of the car from being able to activate it." So how am I wrong saying you did a poor job installing it? 

I don't see how the car's onboard fire system would be expected to provide protection for someone outside the car, messing around the back wheel. That's a different question than wearing the right gear at a track day or on the street. It's actually irrelevant to the conversation, as that's a workshop problem and not a racing problem.

If you're screwing around with gasoline and you think there's a chance it'll light off (which there always is), then you put a portable fire extinguisher within reach. There's a reason a lot of racing orgs require someone to be standing by in full gear with an extinguisher at the ready when fueling - I've been that person at the Thunderhill 25. The driver is protected by the car's system, the person outside the car is protected by their own gear plus the person standing by.

In reply to z31maniac :

Really?! 
 You think I should have installed it so that I could activate it from the far right side instead of near the driver?   
  Really?!  

In reply to frenchyd :

Oh, just stop. 

You brought up an irrelevant story, that your required suppression system wouldn't have helped you when you had a gasoline fire when you were outside the car. Of course it wouldn't. Nobody would ever expect it to.

You took the wrong message from that, that the fire suppression system wouldn't have helped at all. Instead, you were a hero in your story for knowing the right thing to do after setting yourself on fire without the right safety equipment. The lesson here is not "fire systems are a waste of money" but "I was not correctly prepared to be working on the fuel system and got lucky". Yours is the sort of episode that results in regulations, it's not an illustration of why regulations are bad/pointless.

Track day. First day wearing a HANS. 
 

do it. 

I always wear just a cotton tee and cotton gym shorts and flip flops to events for comfort and throw all the gear on just for driving and take it all off in between sessions to stay cool and helps some of the sweat dry too. I stay cool and dont walk around the paddock looking like a wanna be pro driver. 

After my first couple HPDE's i figured I'm doing as many track days as I can in life and I want to go home to my family in mostly the same condition i left. In addition to the manditory Snell helmet I've added Simpson hybrid S, used SFI race suit from Race Image, SFI gloves/socks/baclava/shoes. Also have a fire suppression system sitting on the shelf... Took a few years to collect everything but I feel a lot better that I have them and don't care if anyone thinks its overboard for "only" track days. 

I also have a summer flight suit I picked up from the surplus store i keep now as spare in case passengers need one. At a recent track day I wore it for a session since temps were in the high 90s and it felt hotter than my breathable SFI suit.

 

In reply to StuntmanMike :

Fire burns just as hot at track event as it does on race day, right? 

This revival is a perfect example of, well, you all know.

In reply to z31maniac :

some of us dont know

In reply to StuntmanMike :

One of the many examples of why user "frenchyd" was shown the door.

I'm a novice in an ND Miata.  Three track days this season (2 HPDEs, 1 TNIA).

Just bought a Simpson Hybrid S.  Blackbird roll bar on order. 

And I've noticed that since I've started tracking my car, I've slowed down on the streets.

HJ38 said:

I'm a novice in an ND Miata.  Three track days this season (2 HPDEs, 1 TNIA).

Just bought a Simpson Hybrid S.  Blackbird roll bar on order. 

And I've noticed that since I've started tracking my car, I've slowed down on the streets.

Nice, that's the same setup I had in my NB to start. Very reasonable to start (IMO).

Last weekend, one of the open wheel guys caught on fire. I didn't see the actual fire, but it ain't good when you see a column of smoke coming up from the track. He had onboard fire suppression (as required in the race groups) and walked away fine. Help was there quickly, but the fire was already out.

The week before, I did a private day with a family member whom only had an ill fitting motorcycle helmet in my w2w Miata. For I think the first time since getting the car caged, I went out once or twice just wearing shorts and a T-shirt. Felt wrong, not a fan.

HJ38 said:

And I've noticed that since I've started tracking my car, I've slowed down on the streets.

Makes you realize how slow you are going on the street. No real desire to zoom around and attract attention on the street anymore

In reply to HJ38 :

Same here, people joke about "track therapy" but i really am a much more calm person after discovering track days! And not that I dont still do things i shouldnt, but I dont do the really dumb stuff anymore. 

StuntmanMike said:

In reply to HJ38 :

Same here, people joke about "track therapy" but i really am a much more calm person after discovering track days! And not that I dont still do things i shouldnt, but I dont do the really dumb stuff anymore. 

Picture if you will a 21yr old on a hotted up Yamaha RD350 making about 50hp and weighing 275lbs.

I'd coming sliding into corners with sparks flying off the foot peg and my knee an inch of the pavement. 

Flash forward 3 years and after going to my first race at Willow Springs I never drove over 80mph on the road. No worries about cops, debris in the road or coming around corners finding people just stopped in the middle of the road.

Some 37 seasons later and I still have no desire to ride/drive fast on the road.