Track/Street Tires?

I'm looking at getting a new set of tires for my Miata to serve as good tires for both track and street uses. I've done a half dozen track days so far, and don't think I'm quite ready to step up to an DOT-R tire just yet. I want to learn good habits with lesser tires for now.

So, I'm looking for a good tire that will be sticky, well mannered, and wear well. Suitable for open track and street use. I would like to be able to get it in 195/50/15.

I know the Azenis is a good tire, and very popular for auto-x. But how do they fare against prolonged track abuse?

I dunno, but they survive prolonged street abuse on my FB RX-7 and also lots of autocrosses and drag races. I wouldn't hesitate to track them. (The Azenis Rt615's)

Another question about the Azenis:

My wheels are 15x6.5". Looks like the Azenis Rt615 can only be had in 205/50/15. I know that 205s can be made to fit on a 6.5" wheel (although they're better on a 7"), but hang over the sides a bit. Does that degrade handling, or does it matter?

Should I look into getting myself a set of 15x7" wheels?

If you want a non-R tire, I'd suggest one of the top ST tires, i.e., the Bridgestone RE01R or the Dunlop Star Specs.

I have no expreince with the RT615, but I've tracked the old Azenis (RT215) in a Miata, and they were fine. They would tend to get a little greasy in the warmer months, however. (The same is true of any non-R tire I've tracked, and there have been several.)

Also, I've run 205/14s (RA1) on a 5.5 inch wheel and it works fine. I wouldn't worry about a 205/15 on a 6.5 inch wheel.

We've been driving around a bunch on the Nitto NT01. Has about the same daily driver habits as the Falken, yet has even more grip (it's a real r-compound). That said, can't go wrong with the Falken, Bridgestone, etc. There really are no bad tires in the UHP market. The Federal 595RSR is another good dual-purpose tire (although hard to find)

That gets me to another question:

Should I go for a DOT-R tire? I've heard it said that, although they'll get you turning faster laps, they can mask bad driving habits. So if I want to improve my skills, should I stick to that non-R?

Salanis wrote: That gets me to another question: Should I go for a DOT-R tire? I've heard it said that, although they'll get you turning faster laps, they can mask bad driving habits. So if I want to improve my skills, should I stick to that non-R?

If you have six track days under your belt, I would imagine that you've spent plenty of quality time with an instructor. They should have identified any fundamental bad habits by now.

I say buy a set of used R compound tires. Buddy up with someone who buys a new set of rubber for each race and buy their take-offs.

The folks that espouse the 'masking bad habits' argument just have R-comp envy.

I have bought half-used Hoosiers with a single weekend on them for $100~200. A lot cheaper than a new set of RE01R street tires and a lot more fun.

I'd like to second the NT-01 suggestion. Your car isn't heavy enough or have enough power to wear them out too quickly. Treadwear rating is 100 iirc. They react a lot like the azenis on the street, except that the more heat you get into them the better, at least in my experience. Once they're good and hot I felt like I could defy physics in my stripped out e30. Azenis's were the opposite.

Despite my prior recommendation, I'll also second the NT01. It's my current track tire for the Focus. I didn't recommend them because you were leaning away from R-compounds, but it is a very good "entry-level" R-compound.

On the subject of when it's an appropriate time to go to R-compounds, the group I run with doesn't allow them for novices (basically anyone who hasn't been approved to go solo).

Okay, I'll likely jump into some NT01's then.

One of the drift guys in the area has arranged a deal with the manager of an America's Tire retailer: 25% off tires and 50% off mounting, for people signed up to participate in a particular upcoming event (drift day on the full T-Hill course). I figure this is my opportunity to get a good deal on tires.

As for experience, I've done two instructed days at T-Hill, and was signed off to drive solo by the end of each. And I'm about to do my first NASA HPDE tomorrow, which I'll have an instructor for.

I think a lot of the UHP non-Rs are really only suitable for use in the class for which they were designed. They're not much cheaper than R comps, and they don't necessary last any longer. So unless you HAVE to run them, just bite the bullet and get a set of Rs :) I think the RA-1 is still a legitimate choice, and should have longer life due to the deeper tread depth.

Keith wrote: I think the RA-1 is still a legitimate choice, and should have longer life due to the deeper tread depth.

Longer life than the... NT01?

Oh... please... no... stop... don't twist my arm to get me to buy R-comps...

No, NT01s will last longer than the current crop of RA-1s. RA-1s, despite appearing the same over the past 10 (!!!) years, have evolved to be softer than they once were. However, they are made of some sort of magical rubber that stays good until the cords show..but that point is reached sooner.

RA 1s have a new, more aggressive tread pattern. I just bought a set.

Now it's my understanding that the NT 01, RA 1 and R888 are the same rubber, just different treads.

First I've heard of a new pattern on the RA-1. Need pictures! The ones I bought in August were the old school.

Did the RA-1 really get softer, or was it just the treadwear rating that changed? The R888, NT-01 and current RA-1 all share the same UTQG number: 100.

The rubber's not the same between all three if early reports on the R888 are to be believed. They don't deal with heat cycles quite as well and are more sensitive to inflation pressures. Since Spec Miata is moving to the R888 in 2009, expect the amount of knowledge about this tire to expand dramatically Real Soon Now.

My thoughts on why the RA-1 should last longer than the NT-01 is based on the fact that there's just more rubber on the RA-1, and the tires are similar enough otherwise that that's going to make the difference. I have seen the NT-01s wear pretty fast on a Miata, but it did have an LS1...

Full tread RA1s on a Miata will have noticeable tread squirm. I've never had any unnatural wear issues (such as are sometimes associated with an unshaved R tire), but you can certainly feel it when really pushing the tire. I've not noticed that with full tread NT01s, but they have beefier tread blocks and the tread is not as deep.

Also, I've never driven NT01s on a Miata, but I plan to start soon.

Yeah, for track-only use the NT-01 is going to be better out of the box. Same with the R888.

For a car that's running on the street, I'd leave them full depth. I ran the Targa on full depth RA-1s, never had any complaints :)

So, is the consensus that the RA-1 will last longer at full-tread, but that the NT-01 will last longer when they're at the same tread depth? Or that the NT-01 just isn't as soft, and will last longer, regardless?

The NT-01 is stickier than the RA-1, I'm not sure how it's harder as well :)

Hang on a second - the RA-1 used to be a 40 treadwear IIRC. Now it's 100. Per, are you sure they're getting softer?

Keith is right that you can use the RA1 full tread; there's just a bit of "squirminess" in the feel. If you didn't know what a shaved one felt like, you might not even notice. If I were going to drive them to and from the track, I'd leave them full tread also.

I'd also rather drive RA1s if I thought I might get caught in a heavy rain, whether on track or on the way to/from (which is a big deal living in coastal SE Texas). I've never driven NT01s in the wet, but I suspect they'd be a bit of a handfull with any amount of standing water, especially after being worn down a little. RA1s are still perfectly fine in the wet down to 3/32" or so, maybe even beyond that.

Salanis wrote: My wheels are 15x6.5". Looks like the Azenis Rt615 can only be had in 205/50/15. I know that 205s can be made to fit on a 6.5" wheel (although they're better on a 7"), but hang over the sides a bit. Does that degrade handling, or does it matter? Should I look into getting myself a set of 15x7" wheels?

I wouldn't worry about using 205/50's on your 6.5" wheels. A quick review of the Hoosier tire selection chart shows the Hoosier R6 in 205/50ZR15 is good for wheels between 5.5" and 7.5" with the test rim width being a 6.5", implying the 15x6.5" is the optimum wheel size for the R6 in 205/50ZR15.

I also like the NT-01's. We drove the crap out of them for track days on the shop beater Miata and they performed great until some lame-o (that would be me) flat spotted them going into turn 11 at Thunderhill. They drove fine on the street between track days and even after, flat spots and all!

Good luck!

WW

I've run both the Azenis 615 and the RA1 on my Miata for autox and lapping events. The RA1s, while marginally more expensive have proven to be as durable as the Azenis. I think that tradeoff is worth it, as the RA1 is a much better track tire.

I won't comment on autox times -- we run a different set of rules in Canada, and the hot set up for Miatas is often 13 inch Hoosiers or Kumhos in very wide sizes, so RA1s aren't really ideal.

I'll try to post some pics of the new tread on the RA1 later, but I have 2 sets and they are light years different in look now. The tread pattern now looks like a street version of the NT-01s or R888s.

Tire squirm is a thing of the past.

I was told that was the problem with availability of the RA1s we've had all year, they were changing the tread and retooling.