Transverse V6 options

wspohn said:

The Mazda V6 is a sweet little engine and sounds wonderful.

What about a straight 5 or 6 cylinder - some good engines available from Volvos in NA and turbo versions.

The Volvo 5cyl weighs more than a Chevy 3400.

It's all aluminum but there is a LOT of it.

The VW 2.5l is probably a better starting point IMO.  Lots of people make silly power with them, and despite its being an iron block, it is not very heavy.  And it is quite compact, several inches shorter in length than the old Audi 5cyl.

In reply to Knurled. :

I don't know much about the old SHO, but I do remember reading they went with an automatic transmission because it was stronger.

All I really know about them is that they had a great-sounding 24v engine in 1989 ... back when BMW "big sixes" were still 12v and made 190 hp. The SHO engine put out a bit more power than the 3.2L Porsche 911 of the day.

the gen 2+ 3800's use a 60* bolt pattern so they can bolt up to any of the 60* manual trans available.

Good point/added clarity. The 60 degree engine family is called that because of the bank angle, but it also has a bellhousing bolt pattern associated with it. If you have one of the later 3.8s (which have a 90 degree bank angle) that uses that pattern, the trans options are wider.  

My vote is VW VR6, followed closely by VW 2.5 I5. both sound amazing, very capable of big power with no internal work, very easy to find with a standard trans, countless tuning options available... and the noise a  VR6 screaming at 7500 RPM would make coming from that car...... instant cool factor of 100

John Welsh said:

Your most limiting factor is going to be transmission. There are many good engines to choose from but so few manual trans that are plentiful enough to be the economical choice.  

^^^^^This^^^^^^

Because of that, I think your only real choice is either the VQ35 from a Maxima (complete with HLSD equipped 6-speed) or the Mazda V6 from the Mazda6. 

There are a ton of really good V6's out there, but very few are connected to manual transmissions.

BTW. Love the look you've given to your little project.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

I vote for the 3.6 VR6 from VW.  300 naturally aspirated hp out of the box and makes the best noises.   And a single exhaust manifold eases your packaging issues.  Manual trans available if a bit uncommon.

Wouldnt the common 5 speed Vr6 transmissions mount to the 3.6? 

The Dodge 3.7 makes 305hp, but only came with a manual in the Dakota and that was a while back.  Nothing to see at MOPAR, keep moving.  

My $.02. Set it up for a Honda F20B. JDM Accord SIR engine and trans combos are plentiful and cheap. A whole swap can be had for $1500 and they are 200hp from the factory with an 8000 rpm red line and almost all of them had an LSD trans. They use steel cylinder liners not the FRM that the H22a used and there are quite a few people making over 300hp with just a turbo and engine managment

fanfoy said:

John Welsh said:

Your most limiting factor is going to be transmission. There are many good engines to choose from but so few manual trans that are plentiful enough to be the economical choice.  

^^^^^This^^^^^^

Because of that, I think your only real choice is either the VQ35 from a Maxima (complete with HLSD equipped 6-speed) or the Mazda V6 from the Mazda6. 

There are a ton of really good V6's out there, but very few are connected to manual transmissions.

 

BTW. Love the look you've given to your little project.

Or the gm 60 degree.  I think there are 2 different fwd trans that bolt up and about 6 rwd trans that bolt up (most are variations of the t5)

Vigo said:

the gen 2+ 3800's use a 60* bolt pattern so they can bolt up to any of the 60* manual trans available.

Good point/added clarity. The 60 degree engine family is called that because of the bank angle, but it also has a bellhousing bolt pattern associated with it. If you have one of the later 3.8s (which have a 90 degree bank angle) that uses that pattern, the trans options are wider.  

With the exception of the Quad 4, Ecotec, the Saturn, and the "High Feature" V6, all - ALL - transversely mounted GM engines have the "Metric" or "60-degree" bolt pattern.  Even the Northstar and the LS4, albeit with some tweaks for starter mounting.

For some engines, like the 2.8/3.1, they cast RWD (right side starter) and FWD (left side starter) engine blocks.  For other engines, like the 3800 and the 2.2l, they only made FWD blocks, and made special trans cases for rear drive use.  And for still others, they cast completely different bolt patterns for FWD or RWD.

This is also why a 231 is not a 3.8 is not a 3800.  They're all very different engines - 231s are RWD, BOP engines, 3.8s are FWD, Metric engines, and 3800s are the revised engines with the much shorter deck height and symmetrical port heads.

LanEvo said:

In reply to Knurled. :

I don't know much about the old SHO, but I do remember reading they went with an automatic transmission because it was stronger.

Backwards.  The manual trans all had 3 liter engines.  When they made an automatic SHO, they bumped the displacement up to 3.2l to shift the powerband down a bit.  (Supposedly the 3-liter was a 300+hp, 9000rpm engine built for some Euro Ford (Scorpio?) that was significantly strangled in order to keep the accesories alive in the Taurus.  If you saw the Y pipe (maybe T pipe is better term) you'd believe it...)

The trick was, they had to make a new transmission, which was larger, which meant they had to relocate the engine, which ultimately meant they had to re-crashtest the cars.

The third generation SHO (3.4 V8)  was the one that was automatic only.  I don't think Ford ever made a manual trans version of that chassis.  I do have kind of a soft spot for those, mainly because I like the idea of a small displacement V8.  Sadly there wasn't much reason to buy one given that you could buy a Duratec 3-liter powered model that got much better fuel economy and cost a lot less and only gave up a dozen or so horsepower.

NickD said:

 

The LFX also came to mind, although the problem is that they were never mated to a manual transmission in transverse configuration.

Are you 100% sure about that?  I'm on the HP Tuner site and I swear there have been threads about the manual FWD trans.  I couldn't tell you the car it came in.

GM 3800, cheap plentiful and near bulletproof.

Get the ZZP fabricated aluminum valve covers, the Holden intake and reloacate the coils and nobody will even recognize it.

LanEvo said:

In reply to Knurled. :

I don't know much about the old SHO, but I do remember reading they went with an automatic transmission because it was stronger.

All I really know about them is that they had a great-sounding 24v engine in 1989 ... back when BMW "big sixes" were still 12v and made 190 hp. The SHO engine put out a bit more power than the 3.2L Porsche 911 of the day.

Would transmission strength be as much of a concern in a light two-seat sports car vs. a mid-sized 4-door sedan?

Otherwise, I tend to agree with the VR6 recommendation.  Mostly because manual transmission examples are probably the most common and cheapest along with simplified exhaust packaging.  Build and sort the car using a 100% stock engine, but design the chassis around eventually installing a turbo.

carguy123 said:

NickD said:

 

The LFX also came to mind, although the problem is that they were never mated to a manual transmission in transverse configuration.

Are you 100% sure about that?  I'm on the HP Tuner site and I swear there have been threads about the manual FWD trans.  I couldn't tell you the car it came in.

Not in factory trim. I found mentions of one guy bolting one to the F40 transmission from a 2008 Saab with the 2.8L Turbo V6, as the two of them are closely related.But even then, he had to modify the oil pan and a few other things.

I'd +1 for the Honda J series.  They made literally like millions of them.

They're bullet proof, buttery smooth, and have a great powerband.  It's probably my very favoritest engine.

+1 million for the Honda. Plus, the stock manual transmission on the Accord/TL/TSX is great as well. 

wvumtnbkr said:

fanfoy said:

John Welsh said:

Your most limiting factor is going to be transmission. There are many good engines to choose from but so few manual trans that are plentiful enough to be the economical choice.  

^^^^^This^^^^^^

Because of that, I think your only real choice is either the VQ35 from a Maxima (complete with HLSD equipped 6-speed) or the Mazda V6 from the Mazda6. 

There are a ton of really good V6's out there, but very few are connected to manual transmissions.

 

BTW. Love the look you've given to your little project.

Or the gm 60 degree.  I think there are 2 different fwd trans that bolt up and about 6 rwd trans that bolt up (most are variations of the t5)

There are several 60 degree FWD manual trans options, there where a couple 4 and 5 speeds from fiero's/couple of fwd cars i cant thing of right now, and their is the 6 speed from the pontiac g6's. not sure on what, if any, and LSD though

Use a Ford 3.0L Duratec V6 from a later Taurus or 1st Gen Escape (with the water pump READ (Rear End Accessory Drive belt), not in the FEAD) and the manual 5spd transmission from a 2.5L Contour.   Bolts up.  

Easy to find in the Pick a part.

Common Contour upgrade.....but you don't need to find the over priced SVT parts (extrude honed manifolds, cams,  etc...)

The engines are identical externally-use same heads.  

Very short engine (lengthwise) and easy mounting in a tube frame car.

Very inexpensive power option - readily available EVERYWHERE and durable.

Over 200+ HP with unrestricted exhaust, in that car, will FLY.

edizzle89 said:

wvumtnbkr said:

Gm 60 degree v6.  Can be had in 250 hp variants out of the box with no turbo.  Manual trans options are not rare.

 

Cheap!  Like 200 for a good running engine.  Reliable!  Just replace the intake gaskets before you plop it in.

Came here to say this, mostly the later gen 3.8's. Cheap, pleniful, reliable, can handle good power, good aftermarket, and easy tuning with the stock ecm. Also there are 4, 5, and 6 speed manual transmissions available as well.

I came here to second this.  Relatively large displacement in a compact and not-too-heavy footprint, several manual trans options with great ratios.  Getrag did a 5-speed transverse in the 90s that I really liked.

Get a supercharged version and you're a pulley swap away from your HP goals.

3.0L Ford Duratec 30 V6 - Produced in several forms from 1996-Present, this engine produces 203-221HP in stock N/A form. This engine can be most readily sourced from a 2006-2009 Ford Fusion in 221HP form . Weighing in at 225 lbs A compatible manual FWD 5-Speed MTX75 transmission can be sourced from a wide variety of vehicles .... A 6-Speed manual Getrag transmission can also be mated to this engine from a Ford Focus SVT too 

My vote is j series or thuper charged 3.8.

Weirder and fun stuff, is the KL, whatever weird supercharged motor they put in the millennia, LSJ, LS4, F2T

I feel like the VR6 or J35 would be the most available package.

The GM trans is going to be the most widely available trans that can bolt to a V6 (Or V8.  Or 4cyl)

The Saab 2.8t mentioned above is a High Feature V6, thus the F40 manual trans used in that application can be mated to a 330hp, 330 lb, $500 LFX (search 2013+ Equinox/Impala on car-part). 

HOWEVER, there is a GM bellhousing dowel pin spacing trick you can exploit to use a cheap, strong, and plentiful F23 transmission, likely from a Quad 4 Cavalier. Check this out: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/137446.html

3.0 from a avalon  or the 3.5 engine, i  modded mine up on my avalon, port and polish, matched ports, 3 angle valve seat,etc

 It feels faster, can cherp the front tires  getting on the freeway  1 to 2 gear shift, my avalon is a 2000.