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93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/4/12 2:54 p.m.
benzbaron wrote: I love how people make excuses for poor british build quality and engineering. My mercedes is over 30 years old and the build quality is superb as is the engineering. There is a reason why there are no surviving autonomous car companies located in britain. Even the italians and french have surviving car companies which aren't owned by the chinese or germans.

But Mercedes are sooooo boring compared to a Triumph. Plus half the British companies were put out of British more by the work force then the cars.

mr2peak
mr2peak GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/4/12 3:07 p.m.
Hasbro wrote: My choice; an X with a K24 Frank.

Winning

Hasbro
Hasbro Dork
2/4/12 4:19 p.m.
mr2peak wrote:
Hasbro wrote: My choice; an X with a K24 Frank.
Winning

And 1800 lbs. and ten inch tread in the rear.

MG Bryan
MG Bryan Dork
2/4/12 4:59 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote:
benzbaron wrote: I love how people make excuses for poor british build quality and engineering. My mercedes is over 30 years old and the build quality is superb as is the engineering. There is a reason why there are no surviving autonomous car companies located in britain. Even the italians and french have surviving car companies which aren't owned by the chinese or germans.
But Mercedes are sooooo boring compared to a Triumph. Plus half the British companies were put out of British more by the work force then the cars.

He also has a bizzare definition for the word "no." Let's not let facts get in the way of delusions though.

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
2/4/12 5:05 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: X1/9 because it's not fugly.

Then get a soft top TR7.

With both cars, when I was in my teens, I was so close to to them, but denied the chance to take them out.

My sister's then M-I-L had an X, and my auto tech class had a 7 that we raffled off. Far as I knew, neither ran right

oldtin
oldtin SuperDork
2/4/12 5:35 p.m.

Raze
Raze SuperDork
2/4/12 5:46 p.m.
oldtin wrote:

Damn you beat me to it, I'm going to build me this out of an X next after the Spider is properly sorted (this year!)...

racerdave600
racerdave600 Dork
2/4/12 6:18 p.m.

OK, I've owned them both, many of both in fact, so I have a few comments. 1st, no way no how is the Triumph anywhere near the Fiat in terms of engineering. The Fiat is vastly superior everywhere, That's not to say the Triumph isn't fun, I loved them both, but they simply do not compare in terms of engineering, fit, finish, etc.

My first 7 was an '80 anniversary edition convertible bought when it was 2 years old. It was a great tourer, but not an out and out sports car like the X1/9. I called it a 7/10ths car. Beyond that and it was not in it's element. It also rarely went more than a few months between things like head gaskets, relays, oil leaks, top leaks, etc, etc, etc. But it was fun and I was sad to see it go.

On the other hand, I drove an X everyday for 7 years and was never once stranded. It did require maintenance, but if you did it, it was pretty good. Their biggest problem was getting someone to understand it when they worked on it. For instance, it is easy to do a coolant flush and not bleed the system, resulting in a blown head gasket. Keep in mind it was designed by the same guys that brought your Ferrari's. The engine is simply a jewel.

They also thrive on being driven very hard. Where the 7 is falling apart, the X is starting to shine. It's why they cleaned up against the TR7 in autocrossing back in the day.

Hoelscher's X1/9 was simply amazing. I was lucky enough to drive it numerous times, and his comparison between the X and MR2 is pretty accurate. The X1/9 is like a scalpel, the MR2 a sledgehammer. You can place the X wherever you wanted, while the MR2 bullies it's way through. Although similar on paper, the X is the true thoroughbred between the two.

Oh, and I love the MR2 too. My vote is buy the one you like the best, they're all great cars!

benzbaron
benzbaron Dork
2/5/12 5:09 a.m.

No mercedes are boring, a eurospec m110 engine will make between 177-185hp depending on year and I'd say about between 150-200k miles before it needs top end rebuild. My stock 3500lbs mercedes would push past any stock MG or triumph on the road. Any one who doesn't believe me can offer a challenge on skyline road woodside ca, give me your best! The only cars with a chance are the tr8, tr6, and gt6, but I don't mind being humiliated.

FlightService
FlightService Dork
2/5/12 8:18 a.m.
oldtin wrote:

That is a beautifully finished X right there.

FlightService
FlightService Dork
2/5/12 8:20 a.m.

I believe the winner is the

X1/9

RCRX19
RCRX19 New Reader
2/5/12 4:42 p.m.

you can't compare these two cars an FR vs RR car come on guys .

Since his name was brought up a couple of times Steve Hoelscher drove my X1/9 at an SCCA event a couple of years ago, well that same day he drove a first gen MR2. Not only did he beat the MR2 in my car, he beat his own time in the MR2 with my car and beat the owner of the MR2 in the owners car!

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
2/5/12 6:23 p.m.

I've owned two Exxies and loved them. Having said that, the poor things are pretty underpowered and engine swaps are difficult. The TR7 in a ragtop version would win for me, stock it's as underpowered as the Exxie but swaps are much easier. Plus it has more interior room. Sorry, the TR7 coupe just leaves me cold.

dculberson
dculberson HalfDork
2/5/12 6:26 p.m.

X 1/9 with the Alfa V6 like the Launcha Splatos.

http://www.kilometermagazine.com/artman2/publish/feature_article/Lancia_Stratos_LeMons_Launcha_Splatos.html

FlightService
FlightService SuperDork
2/5/12 10:05 p.m.
RCRX19 wrote: you can't compare these two cars an FR vs RR car come on guys . Since his name was brought up a couple of times Steve Hoelscher drove my X1/9 at an SCCA event a couple of years ago, well that same day he drove a first gen MR2. Not only did he beat the MR2 in my car, he beat his own time in the MR2 with my car and beat the owner of the MR2 in the owners car!

fast_eddie_72
fast_eddie_72 SuperDork
2/5/12 11:11 p.m.

TR7. It's the shape of things to come. They're wacky enough that I love them. There's a really clean looking one for sale in Denver. I went and had a look at it. Just a cool car.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/6/12 12:03 a.m.

I don't think the 7 is all that bad looking a car. I know a lot of triumph purists hate it.. I would not call it pretty like a ferrari 246, but it has it's own charm

Coupefan
Coupefan Reader
2/6/12 7:06 p.m.

X1/9. Accept no substitutes for the wedge.

fast_eddie_72
fast_eddie_72 SuperDork
2/6/12 11:00 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: I don't think the 7 is all that bad looking a car. I know a lot of triumph purists hate it.. I would not call it pretty like a ferrari 246, but it has it's own charm

I love how it looks, but then again, look at what I'm building. Guess I like cars made with straight lines.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
2/7/12 11:18 a.m.
oldtin wrote:

Fast forward to the 2:40 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQOegih_XPQ&feature=related

TR8owner
TR8owner Reader
2/7/12 7:48 p.m.

Its a choice between Fix It Again Tony or one of the worst quality British cars ever made if this is one of the earlier TR7's from the Speke plant.

As a TR8 owner, I tend to view TR7's as parts cars, but the later TR7's were actually good cars, but I'd personally prefer a convertible. If they had put the Dolimite Sprint 16 V engine into the original TR7 and then brought out the TR8 a few years sooner we'd be driving Triumph TR12's by now. The "wedge" failed due to British worker strikes and incompetent old school tie management.

The TR7 was quite succesful as a race car. Lee Mueller won SCCA D production and John Buffum had a lot of rally success, but once the V8 version showed it, the car went into an entirely higher level. The Group 44 TR8's are lengendary and the Euro rally TR8's were also very successful.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/7/12 8:19 p.m.
neon4891 wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: X1/9 because it's not fugly.
Then get a soft top TR7. With both cars, when I was in my teens, I was so close to to them, but denied the chance to take them out. My sister's then M-I-L had an X, and my auto tech class had a 7 that we raffled off. Far as I knew, neither ran right

Even worse!

I cannot STAND convertibles.

(said the convertible owner.)

irish44j
irish44j Dork
2/7/12 9:12 p.m.

GT6. Not ugly. Hood design makes it easy as hell to work on

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/7/12 9:20 p.m.

When I was very young and they were new cars, I loved the TR7 and I hated the X1/9.

Now I'm old and so are they. I like the X1/9 quite a bit these days and I know a lot more about the TR7 than I did back then. I like them both, but I don't want either one.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
2/7/12 9:31 p.m.

Yeah, Triumph should have used the Dolomite Sprint engine in the TR7 but for some weird reason they did not. It really does not make sense on the face of it; the Dolly engine was well developed and in production, it made more HP than the TR7's slant 4 and HP was what the TR7 really needed. It was an easy swap, Triumph used that setup in their factory rally cars. You can't help but wonder just what they were thinking. Trivia: the Honda Unicam head used on the CRF450 and other motorcycle engines is nearly a carbon copy of the Dolly head.

If Jensen had not had financial problems, Lee Mueller would have won more D Production championships in J-H's (he won in '73 and '74 and came within a whisker in '75, then the factory folded) and I don't think the Dolomite engine would have saved Triumph's butt in the SCCA road race wars.

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