Trying to find a decent car seems to not work out for me

Slight rant ahead, but I am seriously looking for input here.

OK, it looks like I'm having a few issues buying vehicles that don't need a ton of work fairly quickly. Basically everything I've bought since with bought the 'vette is currently off the road, and the 'vette also needs work to fix a few leaks and to fix the aircon that magically stopped working when the local Chevy dealer put a new alternator on it (and no, the problem is not electrical).

Normally I don't mind wrenching on cars but at the moment I'm a little overwhelmed by the fact that I'm still learning how to live with a wife (been married for 3 1/2 years but only lived together for long stretches since I moved to the US), get used to the new environment and job and also the cost of getting stuff fixed.

So basically I'm getting to the point where I haven't really got the time to fix my vehicles myself all the time, but they're also not really worth being fixed by the pros (read: I'm too cheap/broke to have them fix the issues as we're trying to get out of debt in a hurry). So like my neighbour, I have half a junkyard in the yard.

The Jeep needs work (yeah, I know, they all do that) and I'm mostly waiting on parts as I want to sort it out in one go. Tough luck, it seems to take forever to get used parts shipped. At least those are fairly easy to fix, even though I probably have to buy a welder.

The Talon - well, that's another exercise in "don't buy modded cars from other people". Doh. I should've known better but now I get to sort out the various shortcuts the PO has taken and hope that it hasn't also blown a head gasket. Heck, I don't even dare to try a leakdown test.

Assuming I want a GRM-ish car that I can use for the occasional HPDE, is it really the case that I need to buy something relatively new because it seems impossible to find something a little older than doesn't need a ton of work?

I mean, I'd like another NA Miata but it seems that the going rate for one that doesn't need major surgery is around $5k-$6k, especially if I want one with a hardtop. Pretty much everything around here (extending down to the Bay Area) is either junk, overpriced IMHO or both if you're not looking at spending at least $8k (that's excluding the Miatae, but they're also expensive).

Maybe it's because some of the cars I like are also in favour with the enthusiastic-but-clueless F&F crowd. I don't know. That said, I'm looking for a cheapish bike to replace the disaster area that is my DR650 and all I'm seeing are disasters waiting to happen.

Maybe I'm a little depressed at the moment but it looks like this'll be the second year without any track activity simply because I don't seem to be able to find a vehicle that holds up to road use, let alone track use.

Do you really have to budget $8k-$10k for a decent useable "fun" car[1]if you don't need/want another project or am I simply too stupid to buy a decent car?

Admittedly I only now realise how good I had it in the UK - I could always find a $2k-$3k Miata or CRX in decent nick (heck, I bought an Integra Type-R for $5k at some point) that didn't need several grands worth of work. Maybe I just have to adjust to used cars being a lot more expensive out here in the West than I'm used to.

What doesn't help my E36 M3ty mood at the moment is that NV has a rule that you can only sell three vehicles per year before you need a dealer license so I only have one more shot before I have to pack in the "ridding myself of disasters" for the year.

I'm this >< close to doing what I hate doing (namely borrowing money to buy a vehicle) but I'm almost paralysing myself with worry that I'll end up with another refuge from the junkyard so I can't even make the decision to go looking.

[1] As opposed to some AWD toaster to get you through the winter.

When I lived in the Bay Area (in the '80s) I thought cars and the labor charged to keep them mobile was on the high side....so nothing has changed.

Reading a few of the British car mags, I get the idea (true or not?) that there are used car bargains to be found. I read of a contributor to CAR (I think it was) that found a sub 30K mile ist gen Insight for LESS than the equivalent of 5000 Pounds. This was in the last 12 months or so. I have told myself that cars in Europe MAY have rust issues that many cars in the U.S. do not (I have to rationalize somehow) or that the costs of registering a car in Europe, plus insurance, is higher? Then I moved to Florida. In Tenn. it costs about $175 to register and license any car....here in Florida, my "first" car cost $450 to license and register. The minimum insurance that I carried in Tn. cost me $700 a year. The not quite the same coverage (due to differences in insurance regs) cost me about $800 a year....on a 15 year old car, and I have had no accidents in 30 years.

But to get back to the main thrust of your rant, concerns about the added costs of a used car, after I acquire it, have had me holding the brakes on a few (almost) purchases. I can avail myself of the uses of a "hobby shop garage" at my local Naval base (as a retiree), but the vehicle needs to be mobile to get it there. As far as parts? I don't remember anywhere in northern Ca. where you could go for "self service" parts recycling....but again, you don't have the time. (Oops, just caught the part about your being in Nv. so that makes, as usual, most of my comments worthless.)

I'm continually stunned at how cheap cars are in the UK. At least from what I've seen on "Wheeler Dealers" and what the "Top Gear" guys bring home.

You just can't find a good car here in the States for $2-3000 that doesn't need immediate attention unless you're getting a family or friend hook up.

docwyte wrote: I'm continually stunned at how cheap cars are in the UK. At least from what I've seen on "Wheeler Dealers" and what the "Top Gear" guys bring home. You just can't find a good car here in the States for $2-3000 that doesn't need immediate attention unless you're getting a family or friend hook up.

Are you doing the conversions though when you watch? I have always thought the opposite. 20k GBP for used WRX's and Evo's is quite expensive...

docwyte wrote: I'm continually stunned at how cheap cars are in the UK. At least from what I've seen on "Wheeler Dealers" and what the "Top Gear" guys bring home. You just can't find a good car here in the States for $2-3000 that doesn't need immediate attention unless you're getting a family or friend hook up.

not true at all!!!!! just helped a girlfriend buy a 97 integra gsr for 3200 with a new set of exclaim uhp's on it. and a set of new tokico blues in the trunk. 86k on the clock and the ac works along with everything else.

un modded and all oil change records included.

integraguy wrote: When I lived in the Bay Area (in the '80s) I thought cars and the labor charged to keep them mobile was on the high side....so nothing has changed.

OK, so it's not just me. That's reassuring .

integraguy wrote: Reading a few of the British car mags, I get the idea (true or not?) that there are used car bargains to be found. I read of a contributor to CAR (I think it was) that found a sub 30K mile ist gen Insight for LESS than the equivalent of 5000 Pounds. This was in the last 12 months or so. I have told myself that cars in Europe MAY have rust issues that many cars in the U.S. do not (I have to rationalize somehow) or that the costs of registering a car in Europe, plus insurance, is higher?

That's partially true, but not necessarily for the UK. The equivalent to the registration in the UK is the 'road tax' and for older cars that's in the order of GBP160-180 IIRC, unless they've bumped it up very recently. Newer cars are different, but it's mostly governed by displacement/CO2 emissions. They' more more expensive to register in Germany, for example. Insurance is also more expensive.

That said, compared to out here in the West there are massive rust issues in the UK and most of Northern Europe, mainly because they chuck salt on the roads in the UK if if snows or freezes 100 miles away. There's also the issue of reoccurring safety inspections in the UK and Germany (and most other European countries, but these are the two I've lived in for a reasonable amount of time).

Oh, and actually insurance seems to be a little cheaper in the UK, with higher coverage compared to what I have here.

In general, cars do appear to be cheaper in the UK, and the cars at the cheap end seem to be more usable than what I can find out here. What might have played a role was that for a long time it was easier and cheaper to finance a new car than something moderately used and that depressed used car values. Plus, old cars are really looked down upon as a result, even though the eccentric Brits more or less started the old car and old bike hobby in Europe. Took France and Germany a while to catch up/overtake them.

integraguy wrote: But to get back to the main thrust of your rant, concerns about the added costs of a used car, after I acquire it, have had me holding the brakes on a few (almost) purchases. I can avail myself of the uses of a "hobby shop garage" at my local Naval base (as a retiree), but the vehicle needs to be mobile to get it there. As far as parts? I don't remember anywhere in northern Ca. where you could go for "self service" parts recycling....but again, you don't have the time. (Oops, just caught the part about your being in Nv. so that makes, as usual, most of my comments worthless.)

Well, for us the main car market is Northern CA - there's a lot of desert out here and jackrabbits, but not that many car dealerships or individuals selling vehicles that don't look suspiciously like an SUV or a pickup truck. That's why we (as in "me and my colleagues") tend to buy vehicles in CA. Mind you, the local ones I've bought weren't necessarily such a good buy either.

My boss warned me about this actually, he mentioned that he - like me - started out buying vehicles for cash and got so frustrated by the crappy vehicles that bought that he switched to financing vehicles that are a couple of years old instead.

I guess it's a case of either saving up a big pile or try to find a vehicle that'll fit the constraints imposed by the local credit union (ie, less than 10 years and 100k old). That might help alleviate the stress...

KATYB wrote:

docwyte wrote: I'm continually stunned at how cheap cars are in the UK. At least from what I've seen on "Wheeler Dealers" and what the "Top Gear" guys bring home. You just can't find a good car here in the States for $2-3000 that doesn't need immediate attention unless you're getting a family or friend hook up.

not true at all!!!!! just helped a girlfriend buy a 97 integra gsr for 3200 with a new set of exclaim uhp's on it. and a set of new tokico blues in the trunk. 86k on the clock and the ac works along with everything else.

But you're not on the West Coast, are you? That seems to be the issue here - vehicles that seem to be advertised on, say, Atlanta CL for $3k all day long are worth $5k or more out here. That's very noticeable with NA Miatas, for example.

flountown wrote:

docwyte wrote: I'm continually stunned at how cheap cars are in the UK. At least from what I've seen on "Wheeler Dealers" and what the "Top Gear" guys bring home. You just can't find a good car here in the States for $2-3000 that doesn't need immediate attention unless you're getting a family or friend hook up.

Are you doing the conversions though when you watch? I have always thought the opposite. 20k GBP for used WRX's and Evo's is quite expensive...

OTOH you can buy a grey import Evo 3 or so for the equivalent of $4k. I know, I had one of those (OK - it wasn't in very good shape mechanically...). Heck, I've owned a nicely modded FD for the equivalent of $15k and that had a lot of tasty parts on it. In fact most of the Japanese grey imports that you can't get in the US are going for peanuts compared to what they'd fetch here. The 'real classics' like Hachi Rokus tend to be more expensive though given that they more or less have to come from Japan (and the Irish used to buy any Hachi Roku that was vaguely for sale for top money).

Older cars (not classics, just something like an E36 BMW or a NA Miata) are definitely cheaper in the UK than they are here. You also have to keep in mind that for a lot of items, there's almost purchasing power parity between the UK and the US (ie, a can of Coke has the same or a very similar sticker price over there, same goes for a lot of other staples) - that is probably skewing my perception, too.

The maintenance is often as neglected as it is here or worse, due to the more limited lifespan of vehicles over there (mainly due to rust issues, but I've seen cars that are 3 years old with severe engine wear because "oil changes are a rip off").

I always wondered how some people on here balanced their real lives with their car hobby...

For myself, I only allow myself 1 play car. Beyond that, its too much effin work - not to mention money. I personally do not allow that car to fall into "project" / non-running mode. I buy the parts I need in advance and then plan a weekend or couple of weekends to do what I need to do and finish it ASAP. If it sits too long, life gets in the way.

Plus the purpose of a car is to drive it anyway right?

Daily drivers, while somewhat interesting, should not require anything more than oil changes to keep running. So no BMWs or 15+ year old "interesting cars".

I personally enjoy a good woman more than having many cars.

i'm sure you know the old saying "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than the other way around."

maybe it's time to bite the bullet for a couple years, but the most toaster-like stickshift econoturd you can find, and get a spare set of rims with R-compound tires for it. sell everything else. part out the talon to the F&F crowd for a better recoup than selling it whole. get rid of all the other junk, either whole or in parts, and start fresh.

oh, if you do take a loan to buy something, don't take that car out on track until the loan is paid off. it sucks to make the note on a balled-up wad of undriveable wreckage because your insurance will not cover an on-track crash.

amg_rx7 wrote: I always wondered how some people on here balanced their real lives with their car hobby...

I think there just comes a point when you'd like the 'hours wrenching per hour driven' ratio to go below one. I certainly spent more time working on a car or bike ten years ago than I'm willing to do now, even though for me it's got some "therapeutic" value (iow, it gets me away from the computer).

amg_rx7 wrote: For myself, I only allow myself 1 play car. Beyond that, its too much effin work - not to mention money. I personally do not allow that car to fall into "project" / non-running mode. I buy the parts I need in advance and then plan a weekend or couple of weekends to do what I need to do and finish it ASAP. If it sits too long, life gets in the way.

Well, sometimes I don't mind if the car stands around for a while - I got a bit miffed at the CJ7, but after having it sit for a while decided I liked it enough to ebay together the parts. But it's a couple of weekends of servicing work[1] only anyway.

The Talon annoys me more because that was supposedly "ready to go" and it isn't. My bad for buying it, but I've now set myself a time limit to get it running right and if I don't, it'll get CL'd.

amg_rx7 wrote: Plus the purpose of a car is to drive it anyway right? Daily drivers, while somewhat interesting, should not require anything more than oil changes to keep running. So no BMWs or 15+ year old "interesting cars". I personally enjoy a good woman more than having many cars.

I hear you. I've been trying really hard to avoid falling into the "I've got three acres, I have space for another vehicle" trap. The C4 looks like a keeper (as my wife likes driving it too), and I'd like a 911 here once I sold mine in the UK, but that still leaves me with a requirement for something that's more of a DD unless I get something like a 964 C4. And in that case I'd probably want a cheaper track car...

Hmm, I wonder what a barn the size of Jay Leno's shop goes for out here...

[1] Welding a couple of holes in the floor is a service item on these, isn't it?

AngryCorvair wrote: i'm sure you know the old saying "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than the other way around."

One of the reasons I was looking for a Miata or an E30, actually.

AngryCorvair wrote: maybe it's time to bite the bullet for a couple years, but the most toaster-like stickshift econoturd you can find, and get a spare set of rims with R-compound tires for it. sell everything else. part out the talon to the F&F crowd for a better recoup than selling it whole. get rid of all the other junk, either whole or in parts, and start fresh.

That'd mean Subaru out here. Not sure I'd want to track one of those - my last experience with a Subaru on the road wasn't that great either. But it kinda sorta makes sense. The main limitation for me with "one car only" car choice is that it'd have to be AWD - last winter very much brought the point home that I do need that.

I'm basically at the point where I've set myself a limit of getting the Talon going properly by the end of August. If that doesn't work out, it goes.

AngryCorvair wrote: oh, if you do take a loan to buy something, don't take that car out on track until the loan is paid off. it sucks to make the note on a balled-up wad of undriveable wreckage because your insurance will not cover an on-track crash.

That's one of the reasons I don't like borrowing money for vehicles. It helps a little with the peace of mind if you don't have to worry if the car you just bent was worth the outstanding loan amount or not. If anything I'd get a loan for the DD and either forget about going on the track until I paid it off or get a cheaper, paid for track car.

Have you considered an MR2? A late 2nd gen or an MR-S should be mostly rust free, have toyota reliability, and with some snows thrown on the rear, go through the white stuff pretty well

I feel your pain. Everyone in Alberta believes their 300,000km rusty rear fender Honda hatch is worth $3k, and it only burns a "bit" of oil.

For myself anyways, I've found ~$5k to be the magic mark for cars that don't need absurd amounts of work. Below that, you need to stick with economy cars that a young/old lady owned so it hasn't been trashed and bagged.

But yea, to realistically not have to sink $1k into a car (NOT including tires), you WILL have to spend a minimum of $5k, more for something "interesting".

I do that with my saabs. My last 900 had mildly rusted front fenders and the seats were falling apart (thread rot) but only cost me 300

I hear you. In my case it was more me changing than the cars. The first car I bought needed fuel lines, radiator hoses, carb work, tires, had mismatching body panels and didn't even have a radio. I remember it fondly because I was 16 and didn't have anything else to do. Now I have to plan out 20 minutes to do brakes on the DD between kid stuff and more kid stuff, an unexpected breakage is unforgivable. Back then, I'd call AAA or get some buddies to push me somewhere, now I am stuck with a pissed off wife and three cranky kids in the car. Totally different situation. maybe cars have gotten more expensive, but so has my taste. Perhaps your situation is similar.

BoxheadTim wrote:

AngryCorvair wrote: oh, if you do take a loan to buy something, don't take that car out on track until the loan is paid off. it sucks to make the note on a balled-up wad of undriveable wreckage because your insurance will not cover an on-track crash.

That's one of the reasons I don't like borrowing money for vehicles. It helps a little with the peace of mind if you don't have to worry if the car you just bent was worth the outstanding loan amount or not. If anything I'd get a loan for the DD and either forget about going on the track until I paid it off or get a cheaper, paid for track car.

Two things solve that problem - GAP insurance on the loan for street driving situations ($299 add-on for my credit union) and Lockton Affinity agreed value track insurance (about $150 for $20k in coverage). Sure, it drives the price of track days up but peace of mind is worth that to me.

mad_machine wrote: Have you considered an MR2? A late 2nd gen or an MR-S should be mostly rust free, have toyota reliability, and with some snows thrown on the rear, go through the white stuff pretty well

I'd love to find a good, second gen (or even first gen) MR2. One 1st gen got away last year because I thought it was overpriced and since then I haven't seen anything decent. Most of the decent 2nd gens down in the Bay Area seem to be turbos, which I don't want (especially because they've likely been modded).

It'd probably be good enough for most of the winter weather, you still need an SUV out here for when the 'proper' winter strikes and they have trouble keeping the passes open. I remember one day where I ended up putting chains on all four wheels of the Jeep...

tuna55 wrote: I hear you. In my case it was more me changing than the cars. <snip> Totally different situation. maybe cars have gotten more expensive, but so has my taste. Perhaps your situation is similar.

There's a lot of truth in that, too. My expectations certainly have gone up a little - I thought in line with the increased money I spend on cars, but what I'm getting from the this thread, the spending potential might not have increased accordingly at the moment. Guess I have to get used to that.

Having automotive/bike ADD hasn't always been helpful in making good picks for me. What has been helpful in the last few years is zeroing in on a specific model or two, then having the patience and willingness to wait for the right car - walk away from the wrong car or offer so low it can't go wrong for you. The times I get spanked now are exclusively when I break my rules on buying.