Trying to find an affordable truck...

In reply to jonnyd330 :

It should matter where you live.  Up here in the rust belt even carefully maintained and regularly washed steel cars/trucks disappear due to rust.           Toyotas have frames that rust past the point of danger, while domestic trucks retain value because of easy parts availability .  They suffer from Rust.  5 years and there are holes in the body.  
 About 2015/2016 Ford solved that with military grade aluminum.  6 years later not a single spot of rust.  
    They also get better fuel mileage.   Typically I average 22 mpg in the spring Sumer and fall and 20mpg in the winter.  1/2 T 4x4 V8.  Most of my mileage is commuting. 

calteg said:

Mr. Welsh hit the nail on the head. All three of the trucks I've owned have been 2wd. I absolutely stole them, because a 2wd truck is less "manly?"  That being said, when it came time to sell, they took a long, long, long time

I love the "look" of a 4X2 dually.  Esp. an older Ram.  They just look low and mean.

Ranger50 said:

In reply to dps214 :

14 Michigan winters with only 2wd trucks. I survived just fine without need of 4wd...

Several years ago, '00s, it was a widely established "fact" amongst drivers here in Virginia where it snows about 1" per year, that one had to have AWD for that 1 day every year or two when it was bad.  Then I took a trip to Quebec and was astonished at the sheer number of Crown Vics.

We'll need more info for sure to get specific.

Extreme generalizations:

Trucks tend to hold their value, and the one advantage I've found is that many buyers tend to put less emphasis on mileage and more emphasis on condition.  I can swap out a worn seat or a wasted steering wheel, but what I can't do is turn back an odometer to having an engine, transmission, rear axle, and bearing wear.  I can't take back the number of cycles that the piston rings have made in the cylinder.  I have done pretty well finding slightly older, low-mileage trucks.  Some of you will remember the one that didn't (my 94 Fordzda Branger), but even with its foibles, it always started, ran, and did the work.  I bought it for $4000 from a used lot, drove it for three years, and sold it for $4500, which means I almost broke even after the repairs I put into it.

Other generalizations:

- Toyotas will cost you twice as much for the same mileage, or you'll have to accept twice the mileage to get the same price.  The whole recall on frame rust doesn't seem to change the insanity.
- Nissans make some great trucks that seem to not hold their value quite as well as Toyota.  Before you dive in, just know that they (remember I said generalizations) tend to rust... not body rust or frame rust, but parts rust.  Power steering lines, brake lines, oil pans, suspension bolts, etc.  While that seems like a bonus, it can really add up in parts costs.  A rusted fender you can still drive.  A rusted diff cover you can't.
- Fords seem to have better assembly quality and use higher quality materials for interior stuff.  The body and frame will rust and that needs to be checked, but it's not uncommon to find a 100k mile F150 that looks a lot better to the eye than a comparable [insert anything else].  If cared for, the mod motors (4.6/5.4/6.8L) will run for an insanely long time.  Their weak point tends to be ignition parts, but don't listen to internet hype.  All of those issues can be solved very easily with a small wallet.
- I won't talk about Dodge because Momma said "if you can't say anything nice...."  That's not really true.  They have redeeming qualities, I just haven't found them yet.
- Chevys will have some electrical gremlins, but the LS motors are solid.  There is a reason every one LS swaps everything.  Interiors tend to be made with a little bit cheaper materials, but I've been happy with my Chevys.  I have a Chevy van right now as my DD.

Talk to us more about your intended use.

Back in 2013 when I was looking at trucks, 4WD in SoCal meant (to insurance companies) that the owners thought that they were Manly Offroader, so insurance was noticeably higher. If it's sold in SoCal, the fact that it's 2WD isn't a deal killer. Going diesel at the time added $12K that I couldn't justify, only towing once or twice a year.

Not sure the above is helpful, but I will add that I have an F150 Ecoboost, and my mechanic said that overall, he prefers GM trucks. Another mechanic did add though, "yeah, but when a GM truck breaks, it costs more to fix." 

In reply to jonnyd330 :

High mileage trucks may be at the end of their life or good for a lot more miles.  Totally dependent on how they were used. Mainly highway miles?  Good!  Start stop delivery type mileage?  Bad. 
 How were they maintained? Regularly serviced good. Mixed tires?  Bad. ( that indicates that when worn out only the minimum was done to keep it running) 

     Second, every purchase has a beginning, middle, and end. To make a smart purchase figure out the end first.  Will you be able to sell  it or will it need to go to the junkyard?  
      I'm not talking about a $500 sale to just get it out of your driveway, I'm talking about selling it while it still has some value left. 
    The reason to think of that way first is it defines what it's going to cost you to own.  For example what would you pay for that same truck if it had 300,000 miles on it?  
  How long will it take you to put that 50,000 miles on it?  5 years?  OK now you know what the cost will be in 5 years with  50,000 more miles. Plus maintenance. And fuel.  And insurance.  And license.  
   Oh and make sure you have an alternative while it's being repaired. If you expect to do the repairs yourself, plan for them.   Figure the worst say a transmission.  A weekend job? Assume it's not a holiday weekend. Where you have to be someplace.  
   I guess what I'm trying to say is don't buy anything used that you aren't prepared to deal with.  It's perfectly fine to let it sit until you get around to it. 

My tow solutions. While the first one worked for a few years, it wasn't optimum with a carb that vapor locked and a column shift that was getting worn out.

Though I don't love it like the '65, the '93 certainly made life better with the cloth seats, a/c and power doodads. Both appreciated in value while I owned them. The Lightning has 176,000 on it at present, uses no oil and only drips a smidge from the rear main seal which is a hallmark of the Windsor engines.  They get parked over the winter, so the lack of 4x4 means nothing to me.

I'll admit, my choices are outside the mainstream and logic, but the point is they both would tow just fine. The '65 cruised the highway at 70 mph from PA to VIR and back with no drama. I did do a disc brake conversion on it though.

The '93 vintage body style trucks are still cheap, especially in extended cab versions. It's a proven design with very few issues. Aftermarket support is exceptional. They are less rust prone than the Triton engine turds that replaced them.  The 302/351 options aren't terribly powerful but there's always aftermarket enhancements. The 460 is the best solution but will give 10-12 mpg towing or unladen...they don't care. I'd much rather have one of these older, simpler trucks than a 250k mile Triton with all the spark plug, exhaust stud, coil pack and cam phaser problems to go with the paper rocker panels or beds that fall off the Super Dutys. 

ddavidv said:

 

 

 They are less rust prone than the Triton engine turds 

Hahaha hahaha,  you kill me!

I agree with you on all your points, but to say those are not rust prone...I havent seen one of those trucks around here for at least 10 years.  It's a bit like saying that Pepsi is less wet than Coke.

In reply to ddavidv :

You bring up a good point.  While I would much rather have the 65, trucks have come light years in tow prowess in the last 50+ years.  I would rather tow the same load with a 10-year old 1/2 ton than a 30 year old 1-ton.  Even if you replace and upgrade every bushing, tie rod end, drag link, and return the entire suspension back to factory fresh, old trucks are just a pale shadow of what a truck is today.  You look under a 69 Chevy pickup and you get a 5" c-channel frame with notches for the axle.  Look under a 2015 Chevy pickup and you have 9"x 3" fully boxed frame rails.  The difference is big.

I didn't say they weren't rust prone. They are, however, more resistant to debilitating rust than the newer trucks. How do I know this? Well, I live in Pennsylvania. Stuff rusts here big time. When I went shopping for a 'newer' truck I had resigned myself to getting one from the early 2000s. But, every F150 in the 'reasonably affordable' category was missing rocker panels. Every. One.  The bad ones also had bedside and fender rot. For trucks I was never particularly wild about, I couldn't see paying good money for something already rotten.

Super Dutys were my preferred choice but they have problems with doors, cab corners and also rockers. Worse, though, are the beds. The bedside panels turn to mush pretty quickly but what you can't see are the floor crossmembers that rot out. By the time you notice they are shot they have started to take the bed floor with them. The bed is basically junk, and there are no beds to be had unless you drive to Texas to get one.

After touring junkyards and Copart and examining numerous trucks I concluded that these earlier ones, while certainly not rust-proof, held up far better for their age than the newer ones. Bedsides always blew out over the rear wheels (just like every late model Chevy and Ford SD) but the cabs remained surprisingly solid.  I could spend half as much for a truck in better condition, and avoid the modular V8 and all it's failings.

At the time, the Lightning was the cheat code to an earlier truck. The 351W put out nearly identical power figures to the spark-plug-ejecting mod motor. 4:10 rear gears with overdrive are perfect for towing.  Car-like buckets are comfortable for trips vs a vinyl bench. And, it's kinda collectible, so has gone up in value since I bought it. The L's are no longer competitively priced, but the plain trucks are still very inexpensive. Any part you need can be gotten from RockAuto or LMC Truck. 

My sales pitch applies to Fords only. I don't care for Dodges and the GM stuff had rotten rockers, beds and unique mechanical issues during the same period. I prefer sticking to what I know.

I Agree with Curtis's earlier statement - when it comes to trucks, condition trumps mileage by a pretty good amount. My 02 Silverado has almost 270k miles, but I'm the second owner. I bought it 10k miles ago and it came with a stack of paperwork for every repair it has had since new, and it's been generally reliable... aside from the transmission grenading itself 6 months after I bought it. Still, it's a 4L60E, they're not known for being particularly strong anyway lol. I got my truck cheap partially because it has some qualities that not everyone wants - namely the 8' long bed. While I prefer the long beds, there is definitely a premium for medium and short boxes, presumably for ease of parking.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I couldn't agree with you more.  While I would love to have a 1932 Ford V8 pickup truck,  ( as a toy). Newer trucks are just so much better.  You pointed out the strength of the frames.  But ignored the strength of the suspensions, brakes, improvements in wiring, ride comfort, power and transmissions.  
       Plus unlike the the 1965 you don't have to reset the points or  tighten up the adjusters on the drum brakes. 
    I see trucks depreciate like anything until they get over 10 years old.  Then they start to level off.  
      Don't be like the couple I tried to help as a salesman.  Used truck with about 50,000 miles on it was 80% of the price of new ones with the same stuff.  In addition new ones cost less to finance. Ford had a 1.9% interest rate loan available and used rates were over 9%.  Plus insurance on the new one was actually a little cheaper because of additional safety features. 
  I showed them both sets of numbers. Exactly what their payments would be and still they insisted on taking the used one. 
     My commission on the used one was over $3500 and the commission on a new one would have been $300

 A new truck will easily last 20 years. If regularly washed and the oil changed.  Knowing what your transportation costs will be for the next 20 years  is worth a great deal.

  Now I can understand  if you change cars every few years or less buying used.   But to me, who saw how shabby that used truck was when it was traded in.   But after clean up and a few dents removed via the paint less guy at $50 a dent.  The seat cover was new ( but not a Ford part) to replace the worn/ torn original and cheap new tires. 
 It looked so pretty but had no warranty 

In reply to frenchyd :

"A new truck will easily last 20 years. If regularly washed and the oil changed.  Knowing what your transportation costs will be for the next 20 years  is worth a great deal."

I would add "fluid filmed annually" if you want it to last 20 years. Even then, it seems like modern trucks have so many places for moisture to collect that it's an uphill battle making it last. I hit my Frontier with woolwax after I got it, but it already had 11 years of Pennsylvania/Ohio weather corrosion, and I don't know if I'll keep it all that long before finding something cleaner to start with. 

In reply to dannyp84 :

Two reasons I bought a new Ford over the the Chevys/ GMC's I'd bought for the previous  60 years.  
  One, military grade aluminum.  The body on mine but later ones have aluminum frames as well.  
 Second all the drain holes I saw in the bottom  of my truck.  The trick with those is regular use of drive through car washes with under chassis wash. 
    Rolling around under the chassis on a creeper Years later none of the drains were plugged. Some like the door drains are easy to check as you get in or out. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to dannyp84 :

Two reasons I bought a new Ford over the the Chevys/ GMC's I'd bought for the previous  60 years.  
  One, military grade aluminum.  The body on mine but later ones have aluminum frames as well.  
 Second all the drain holes I saw in the bottom  of my truck.  The trick with those is regular use of drive through car washes with under chassis wash. 
    Rolling around under the chassis on a creeper Years later none of the drains were plugged. Some like the door drains are easy to check as you get in or out. 

I'm pretty darn sure the F150 frames are steel and just the body is all "military grade" aluminum.

I have yet to see a pickup with an aluminum frame.

In reply to ddavidv :

That's what I get for listening to the service writer.  I'd asked him about aluminum steel electrolysis.  He informed me the new Ford frames were all aluminum.  
    That's on me.   I should have crawled underneath to check.   

One other thing to consider is a van. The nice thing about towing with a van is that you have a lot of covered storage space, you can sleep in it, and you can even add a roof rack. With rubber floor mats, a van will haul most of the dirty stuff that a truck will. They can be had with big motors and HD suspension, just like a truck.