Tudor United SportsCar prototype news...

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

TV is the rub.

Without TV, CanAm died under it's own weight. Outside of one team, the rest could not be competetive. And that's when you start questioning why you are doing that.

So what kind of racing puts eyes on a channel?

Right NOW, I bet the 24 @ Datyona will be popular, JUST because of the merging of the series, and the changes to some of the cars. Will that maintain? dunno.

But supporting an expensive series by ticket sales alone isn't going to happen.

How to keep the eyes on it, I don't know. Right now, NASCAR and Indy seem to be less right than wrong, and F1- is bernie correct in the actual numbers of eyes? IIRC, the expensive HD package offered in Europe didn't exacly go over well.

I hope this new series works. Both DP and P2 seems to be appealing to most OEM engine suppliers. And the GT classes are cool for the total car makers. But I'm not sure if 4 classes will work or not. I didn't really follow all 5 for the ALMS group.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: TV is the rub. Without TV, CanAm died under it's own weight. Outside of one team, the rest could not be competetive. And that's when you start questioning why you are doing that. So what kind of racing puts eyes on a channel? Right NOW, I bet the 24 @ Datyona will be popular, JUST because of the merging of the series, and the changes to some of the cars. Will that maintain? dunno. But supporting an expensive series by ticket sales alone isn't going to happen. How to keep the eyes on it, I don't know. Right now, NASCAR and Indy seem to be less right than wrong, and F1- is bernie correct in the actual numbers of eyes? IIRC, the expensive HD package offered in Europe didn't exacly go over well. I hope this new series works. Both DP and P2 seems to be appealing to most OEM engine suppliers. And the GT classes are cool for the total car makers. But I'm not sure if 4 classes will work or not. I didn't really follow all 5 for the ALMS group.

Can you expand on what you mean by less right than wrong for Indy and NASCAR. I don't follow stock cars, they flat out don't interest me. But the last couple of years since the intro of the DW12 in Indy car I see a lot going right. They need more work on their schedule and despite the teams and pundits bemoaning the loss of Baltimore I'm glad to see that yellow flag fest gone. The racing seems great. Different drivers, teams and engines ebbing and flowing for who's fast. Multiple winners, good racing throughout the field and an ever stronger driver line up.

Back to CanAm, that seemed to do fine with the Bruce and Denny show dominating because others were there or there about and could soon get the same equipment. It started dying when Penske got the 917's to be reliable and it became an all-out spending war that no one else could win, until it started imploding and Shadow could pick up the spoils before it finally died. I know much less about CanAm mkII with the re-bodied F5000 cars, but there were some big big name divers in that for a while. Alan Jones, Jody Sheckter, Unsers, Rahal, Villeneuve, Rosberg, Ickx, Tambay, Fabi, Sullivan etc. Hell that reads like a who's who of F1 and Indy car of the early mid 80's. Some very very good drivers there. What caused its demise, the rise in popularity of IMSA?

alfadriver wrote: In reply to yamaha: Not sure where you are going with that... seems like you changed your mind once it was shown that the DP cars are faster than CanAm cars. Which didn't say anything about relative speed or whatever. Outside of the CanAms, I can't recall any prototype series that was the fastest series out there. (except, perhaps the 1.5l Grand Prix era) And considering that the CanAm racing was actually really bad, I'm not so sure anyone would want to go back to that. I'm not really sure how we look back on the "golden years" which produced multiple lap margin victories over a 500 mile race.

My apologies for not being direct. Can Am in the days of lore were powerful beasts with a full body. I'm not including open wheel cars at all, because obviously they would never compete with each other. Over the last few decades, yes, things have become faster(I would effin' hope so), and obviously aero packages have advanced along with tires. Personally, I would love to see DP's running set aero packages with open "Production" engine rules. I'm not changing my mind on anything here, I just try not to write a novel every post. The novel would probably be required to show you where I am coming from with this though.....

I don't think the spec racing works as well as they would like it to. Moreso for NASCAR, but I don't see it working that great for Indycar.

The idea of the Indycar is good. But making it a racer v racer isn't as interesting as racer v racer AND car v car. That's why I think F1 works a little better. Although, it's not as if ALMS, LeMans, and GrandAm are tearing up the TV charts.

As for the popularity of CanAm, I'm not that sure it really was that popular. We like to think it was, but I don't know. Even without the P cars coming, I'm not sure it would sustain with so few cars being able to finish the races. Sounds cool, appears cool, but HUGE money to spend on such little return.

CanAm2 had great names, as did F5000. Both of those series didn't last long. Now that I think about it, one thing in common for both series- SCCA. And we don't really see a TransAm series going these days much, either. hmmmmm...

But, yes, I do think IMSA killed both of those, since it offered a more reasonable alternative, in terms of the administration.

yamaha wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to yamaha: Not sure where you are going with that... seems like you changed your mind once it was shown that the DP cars are faster than CanAm cars. Which didn't say anything about relative speed or whatever. Outside of the CanAms, I can't recall any prototype series that was the fastest series out there. (except, perhaps the 1.5l Grand Prix era) And considering that the CanAm racing was actually really bad, I'm not so sure anyone would want to go back to that. I'm not really sure how we look back on the "golden years" which produced multiple lap margin victories over a 500 mile race.

My apologies for not being direct. Can Am in the days of lore were powerful beasts with a full body. I'm not including open wheel cars at all, because obviously they would never compete with each other. Over the last few decades, yes, things have become faster(I would effin' hope so), and obviously aero packages have advanced along with tires. Personally, I would love to see DP's running set aero packages with open "Production" engine rules. I'm not changing my mind on anything here, I just try not to write a novel every post. The novel would probably be required to show you where I am coming from with this though.....

Theoretically, DP and P2 are more production engines than any other top racing series out there. There's the 5.0l from a Mustang, the 5.0l from the 5 series, the 5.0l from the Panamara, the whatever from the Vette, etc. P2 had a LOT of Nissan V6's, and quite a few Honda V6's. So at least it has that going partially for it. They are not unrestricted, but better than a totally unique engine that you could barely even look at, let alone relate to.

In reply to alfadriver:

SCCA, of course. Always able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

alfadriver wrote: Theoretically, DP and P2 are more production engines than any other top racing series out there. There's the 5.0l from a Mustang, the 5.0l from the 5 series, the 5.0l from the Panamara, the whatever from the Vette, etc. P2 had a LOT of Nissan V6's, and quite a few Honda V6's. So at least it has that going partially for it. They are not unrestricted, but better than a totally unique engine that you could barely even look at, let alone relate to.

Eric, this is the internet, stop bringing facts and logic into this will ya

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Yep, I think start with the production engine and go nuts would be the answer.....