Turbo Balancing?

Just looking for insight here, and to maybe clear up some confusion.

I'm working on rebuilding a couple of MHI TD05 turbo's for my DSM. Both are getting a new turbine wheel/shaft and compressor wheel. While rebuilding them is a breeze, I've run into an obstacle regarding "balance". The new assemblies are themselves balanced, but it's been my understanding that the entire rotating assembly should also be balanced together.

I've (reluctantly) contacted a local "turbo" shop, but I don't think they really understand what I'm trying to have done. I say reluctantly, because a few years ago my buddy had them build a turbo for his F2T Probe that didn't turn out so hot. The turbo blew oil through the turbine side immediately after install, and when the shop was informed, they launched into the blame game before even looking at the turbo. He eventually just showed up there with it and was told it was now a $600 paperweight. They eventually did it right after the BBB was brought into the convo. Anywho, after discussing it multiple times, the person there insists that they only need the wheels to do this supposed assembly balancing. It just seems to me that they are simply trying to balance the wheels and not the assembly, without needing the shaft nut and certain thrust parts. The place is kind of a hike, and I'll have to take time off work to fit their hours. I really don't want to have to go all the way there to find out they can't do what I'm looking for.

On the other hand, I've heard numerous accounts from others that this type of balancing is not needed at all.

Anyone have any insight?

If it was just a matter of replacing seals/bearings, then i'd say that type of balancing is not needed if you were careful.

But in this case... i'd have the whole thing balanced.

If your local shop sucks, i'd consider sending them out to a well-regarded shop.

Lots of turbo shops online that will balance center sections at a decent price. No reason to deal with a piss poor local shop in this case.

In theory if everything is in neutral balance individually then when you bolt it all together it will be in balance. But it does spin at over 100k rpms so even a tiny bit off and its a big problem. It is going in a DSM, so berkeley it, just slap it together. Once you get down to buying the rebuild kit, buying both wheels, the housings that fit the wheels you're probably upgrading, and then shipping it to gpop shop to get ballanced and shipping it back you can probably just buy a complete turbo of what you're tyring to mutant together from kinugawa for the same money.

Leafy wrote: In theory if everything is in neutral balance individually then when you bolt it all together it will be in balance. But it does spin at over 100k rpms so even a tiny bit off and its a big problem. It is going in a DSM, so berkeley it, just slap it together. Once you get down to buying the rebuild kit, buying both wheels, the housings that fit the wheels you're probably upgrading, and then shipping it to gpop shop to get ballanced and shipping it back you can probably just buy a complete turbo of what you're tyring to mutant together from kinugawa for the same money.

Haha. To be completely honest, only one of them is getting "Kinugawa'd".

I've been told that If I drive my Subaru to the DSM Shootout for a third year in a row, I'll be shunned. The car has been sitting for years with a 14b that dumps a large amount of oil into the SMIC, and I've had these two blown MHI EIII16G's laying around since Bush was still in office.

One of them is being rebuilt and staying a 16G using some BNIB MHI turbine and compressor goodies that have also been in my garage since Bush. The other one had been rebuilt sometime back then, and then took some horrific compressor wheel damage by ingesting a coupler six months later. That one is being "Kinugawa'd" into a 20G for fun.

Investment is TINY compared to what a new MHI 16G now costs. I also technically have not bought anything from Kinugawa.... yet.

Yeah I honestly was going to build a td04HL-19t from what I thought was a 19t center housing, then I priced out the HL wheel and housing, the 19t wheel and housing, the rebuild kit and getting it balanced, then decided I could buy a 16g instead. And I also realized that what I bought wasnt a 19t turbo anyways. I'm probably going to just grab a new 13t wheel for it and a rebuild kit and whip it together and ebay it for enough to break even as a rebuilt turbo.

Leafy wrote: Yeah I honestly was going to build a td04HL-19t from what I thought was a 19t center housing, then I priced out the HL wheel and housing, the 19t wheel and housing, the rebuild kit and getting it balanced, then decided I could buy a 16g instead. And I also realized that what I bought wasnt a 19t turbo anyways. I'm probably going to just grab a new 13t wheel for it and a rebuild kit and whip it together and ebay it for enough to break even as a rebuilt turbo.

I hear ya. I'm rolling the dice on spending the little bit on this turbo crap anyway. The car burns a healthy amount of oil, from which I'm praying is only caused by the never rebuilt 14b sourced from a '90, and valve seals that have needed to be changed since 2005. I also somewhat recall the car not being a fan of going into second gear before it was parked...

It's much better to send your turbo assembly to a good shop to get it balanced than dealing with a local shop that isn't quite sure what turbo balancing is. You also might not want to turbo a car that burns a good amount of oil.

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: You also might not want to turbo a car that burns a good amount of oil.

You don't know DSM folks too well, do you?

Leafy wrote: In theory if everything is in neutral balance individually then when you bolt it all together it will be in balance.

I used to work in turbocharger production. Some manufacturers build this way, but most build with core balance.

turboswede wrote:

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: You also might not want to turbo a car that burns a good amount of oil.

You don't know DSM folks too well, do you?

Beat me to the punch!

Specifically what I was going to say is that means that no Mitsu should ever have a turbo.

In reply to shelbyz: I feel your frustration. I have a TD05 for my SAAB project that was rebuilt during the "W" administration, that has failed to find it's way onto my car too. As well as a full set of poly bushings and some other good stuff.

Burns oil? More boost!

I like OP. He would do well with an F2T.

Burning oil lowers fuel octane.
Unless it's being burned AFTER the chamber....

It is going in a DSM, so berkeley it, just slap it together.

That's exactly how i feel about my old dodges. Coincidentally, RIGHT NOW i have a broken 4g63 car being parted out in my carport so i can mock up a 4g63 in a k-car. LOL

evergreen turbo is the only place i have ever considered giving my money to, to have anything turbo related done. they have a very solid reputation on the turbo-ford boards.

http://www.evergreenturbo.com/

-J0N

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Turbo-Tractor-Supply/161779097180407

These people, on every internet forum everyone seems to swear by them. Havn't used them yet.

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: evergreen turbo is the only place i have ever considered giving my money to, to have anything turbo related done. they have a very solid reputation on the turbo-ford boards. http://www.evergreenturbo.com/ -J0N

Wow, basically just up the road from where I live.
Who knew?

Swank Force One wrote: Burns oil? More boost! I like OP. He would do well with an F2T.

Haha thanks. A 3 pedaled 92 PGT in Calypso green is on my "auto bucket list". My buddy that used to be into those cars still has a lot of goodies laying around... just in case.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I appreciate it.

As far as the oil burning goes, I'm crossing my fingers hoping it's a combination of a blown turbo and leaky valve seals. The bottom end is mildly built with roughly 25-30k on it, and I'd rather not have to rebuild it (again).