Turbo D-series vs Turbo B-series vs N/A K-series

So having decided to go SMF since I just order PCI trailing arm bushings (solid metal) with my 93 Civic. I have been thinking about where I want to go with the engine in the car. I am hoping to get the suspension redone before the start of this season and next off-season lighten and possible add power so I am going to slowly start collecting parts for it. 

The simplest thing would be to add turbo to the current motor (JDM ZC SOHC VTEC basically a D16Z6 with a slightly different cam IIRC). That wouldn't get me to the power level I want but I afford to do that next winter and then start rebuilding a Z6 for more boast. IIRC the limit for a D16 is about 220hp on a stock bottom end.

Or I could swap to a B-series which should be a fairly straight forward swap but I am not sure about likelihood of finding a decent B-series anymore. So I figure a rebuild would be on order and it seems like B-series motors are more expensive then I remember. But it would take less work to reach 300whp.

Or the final option would be a K-series. I was thinking 300whp would be doable in a N/A K-series. And it doesn't seem like the K-series is all that much more expensive then a B-series anymore. It would be a more complex swap though.

Thoughts? Kind of leaning towards D-series build.

I have nothing of real value to add to your thread, but I love how buying solid trailing arm bushings = NEW ENGINE! Maybe it's just me... but it gave me a chuckle. 

In reply to CyberEric :

Lol. Gotta start somewhere. Honestly I have wanted more power for a while now.

Quick glance at the rules means with a K series you have a 2050lb minimum weight.  With a boosted B series you are at 2030-2065 and with a D series you are at 2030lbs.

What are the other guys building these days?  Last I recall SMF Civics mostly had 2.4L K series, right?

How much power does it make sense to have in SMF?  Is a 300hp car really much faster than a 220hp car?

What about a boosted K series?  I've seen a K20 in a CRX with a blower before

have you thought about supercharging at all?  The instant power with no lag could benifit autox more than a turbo

I have a B20 vtec, B18 skunk2 stage 2 built head, SS hytech replica header, RC injectors, and a type r trans. Basically the full package for Honda power. Would make you a good deal on everything. 

Of note, you can build several, VERY HIGH QUALITY turbo D’s for the price of ONE k swap. I’m a huge proponent of the d series. And yeah, the 200hp mark is the limit for the bottom end, but all you need are Suzuki vitara pistons and some stronger rods and you’re set. 450hp all day. 

And as far as the B series goes, it makes about the same torque as the D. For way more money. B series for the kid that likes to tout he can hit 8k. D series for the man that beats him in a straight line. 

300whp N/A even from a K series is mega buck$$$$. 3-4x challenge budget, starting from an already K swapped car.

Another point to consider is the weight distribution between the front tires with a K swap is much better than D or B series in a LHD car. One of the primary reasons I went K series in my SMF civic.

Mine is an overweight coupe, but I was pretty disappointed with my B18C build. If I were to do it over again, I'd probably do a turbo D series. Turbo B series is a nicer overall package, but since you already have a D series it's more cost effective IMO.  Not only are nice running B series getting a bit more scarce now, it seems every B series trans is trashed and needs 2nd gear.

If you go K, I'd definitely start with a K24. The torque is much more worth it, and the base K series transmissions are better geared for autox speeds in 2nd. I have a K20 with a 6 speed, and while it's got a lot more "street cred" with the Honda kids, I'd probably be faster with a K24 and 5 speed that doesn't require a 2-3 shift.

I swapped a JDM B20B - high compression into a 95 Del Sol a few years back. Fun car and the swap was pretty cheap and simple. Sounds like the budget matters to you, so you could start with the basic B20B swap, then go VTEC and Turbo as you get time and money.

Naturally aspirated will always triumph, because boost is dumb.

 - Dark Helmet

clutchsmoke said:

I have a B20 vtec, B18 skunk2 stage 2 built head, SS hytech replica header, RC injectors, and a type r trans. Basically the full package for Honda power. Would make you a good deal on everything. 

Sent you a PM.

Thanks for the advice guys. Unless I end up scoring a great deal on a B-series, I am pretty sure it will be a turbo D-series build.

In reply to Run_Away :

If I can hijack this for juuuuuust a second......

Is there a good place online that sorts out the differences between all the k20-k24 blocks and heads? Also wondering about the different transmissions, their use on track, LSD's all that jazz. I'm trying to work my way through the Honda sites but sorting the wheat from the chaff is a bit overwhelming. This would be in a car that came with a K20 so a lot of things would be technically easier. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Are you wondering about your OLOA civic? 

Boosted D.

Trackmouse said:

Of note, you can build several, VERY HIGH QUALITY turbo D’s for the price of ONE k swap. 

I'd like to hear more about this. 

--The other guy considering a b or k swap into a d-series powered race car.

In reply to clutchsmoke :

Sort of. A motor is going to get built at some point, either for the Civic or the RSX or for the car I'm about to pick up. Lots of options, all of them K motors. I need to learn. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth : Gotcha. Probably worth making a new thread. There is some solid K series knowledge here. That way we could have it all in one place. I only know some. As an all in one package the 8th gen civic si is the best starting point. Comes with the helical LSD and the transmission ratios are almost as short as the rsx-s ratios. 

Tyler H said:

Trackmouse said:

Of note, you can build several, VERY HIGH QUALITY turbo D’s for the price of ONE k swap. 

I'd like to hear more about this. 

--The other guy considering a b or k swap into a d-series powered race car.

I probably shouldn’t have said “several”, more like two-three, but most guys start with a ZC or d16b, mini Frankenstein, port work, cam for turbo, then turbo edit, or chrome, or what ever open source Ecu Burner you want to use. 

After that it’s HMT (that’s a “home made turbo” kit). Find a good quality snail from a Volvo/dsm/Saab. About 10psi on a stock bottom end or she’ll blow. After you do rods and vitara pistons, it’s Bisimoto time. 

All this can be had for peanuts. 

Are the sohc's at curbside status these days due to the swap guys?  That doesn't hurt the budget either.  The turbo D path is well blazed for sure. 

d-series.org I think is what I'd be reading up on if I were doing it.  I wouldn't push it to 220hp on stock rods.  From what I remember they ALL don't hold to the same power level.  Maybe 180ish.

In reply to 8valve :

That’s exactly right, 180 hp is about the max for a daily driver. 220~ If you like rebuilding engines

And which of these little guys can I mount to a rwd trans to throw in a Triumph? 

In reply to yupididit :

That is an excellent question!let us know if you find anything! 

You can find transmission adapters for the K Motors easily, if not cheaply. Andy Hollis has a Miata with one.