Turbo people, i need help troubleshooting

Alright, i've been fighting this for a long time, but i'm starting to get paranoid about it now that the Escort is about to be rendered undriveable for at least a couple weeks.

This is concerning the MX6 GT.

Coming to a stop, usually from highway speeds, but not always, i'll get a nice puff of oil smoke out the exhaust. Sometimes it's one puff, sometimes it'll smoke for 10-15 seconds. This might only happen 3-4 times a week that i notice.

Turbo still spools hard, car pulls like a bull on crack. I AM noticing consumption, but nothing crazy, or more than it's ever consumed. (I do still have 2-3 oil leaks that need addressing at some point.) Some of the other loss could be accounted for by the open PCV off the valve cover.

My ideas:

1) Turbo seals are shot. But wouldn't this happen ALL the time, instead of intermittently? There seems to be no correlation between this happening and whether or not i just boosted.

2) The car has two PCV valves. One open, one going back to intake manifold. One or both sticking sometimes? Would that do it?

3) Turbo oil drain line. Being that it always happens after i've come to a stop, maybe oil is sloshing forward in the pan and up my drain line? I'm not using the stock oil drain, it's tapped into the pan.

I'm hoping it's NOT #1. The other two i'm ok with.

Which sounds most likely, or is there anything else i'm missing?

When this happened to me it was about 1/4" of shaft play. When the turbo was spinning along, it was throwing oil about happily. Let it stop and the oil pooled and the seals that were shot from the wheels shuttling back and forth let it all out. At least that's what I reasoned it was - but the new turbo definitely fixed it. Time to get a bigger one anyway, right? Check the endplay and report back.

Was yours intermittent like this? Like i said, i can go 2-3 days without it happening.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Was yours intermittent like this? Like i said, i can go 2-3 days without it happening.

It felt intermittent, but it really wasn't. I had to be sitting still at idle for long enough, and the wind had to be blowing the right way for me to notice. If I so much as had my foot resting on the throttle, or the A/C was on or something, it would be enough to keep it from smoking... at first. It got worse and more obvious. It's very easy to check, just grab the wheel and move it around. If you can, it's bad.

Wonder if it's related that i seem to have blown a wastegate gasket... and that my BOV potentially isn't adjusted correctly.

Sigh.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Wonder if it's related that i seem to have blown a wastegate gasket... and that my BOV potentially isn't adjusted correctly. Sigh.

Never heard of a wastegate 'gasket', if you had, you wouldn't be making boost...

BOV works the opposite way (to relieve pressure in the intake on shifts), and wouldn't affect oil coming out the exhaust unless something else was wrong...

You have a problem with your turbo, hate to say it, otherwise you have a problem with your engine, but pulling the turbo will tell you if that's the case as your turbine will be coked...

Have you checked to see how much oil is collecting in the bottom of the IC? I have a friend that had a turbo volvo with a slow but steady oil leak on the compressor side of the turbo, about once every other month it would start smoking a lot, he would bring it to me and I would drain the oil from the IC and it would stop. One time it had more than a quart! He drove it like that for a couple of years than traded it in. Also one of the SAAB c900 turbos that I owned always smoked from the turbo seals every time I changed the oil, it would do it for a day or two then just stop, and that turbo no shaft play and boosted great. So I would say check for play and if its not bad don't panic and keep driving.

Yeah, I'll throw another vote in for turbo shaft seals. You don't say how many miles on your current setup, but I'm guessing it's enough.

I had a Volvo 945T that would let out a big puff of smoke every so often when I would come to a stop. It wouldn't do it all the time, but with 120k on the turbo, I figure that's what it was, since engine compression was good. Got rid of the car not too long after, but mostly just because we had too many cars. It still ran well and pulled strong.

+1 on checking for oil in the intercooler. I bet you find some.

Oddly enough with my brick the same symptoms (as I noted above) were due to large amounts of endplay and yet I had little to no oil in the intercooler.

Raze wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Wonder if it's related that i seem to have blown a wastegate gasket... and that my BOV potentially isn't adjusted correctly. Sigh.

Never heard of a wastegate 'gasket', if you had, you wouldn't be making boost... BOV works the opposite way (to relieve pressure in the intake on shifts), and wouldn't affect oil coming out the exhaust unless something else was wrong... You have a problem with your turbo, hate to say it, otherwise you have a problem with your engine, but pulling the turbo will tell you if that's the case as your turbine will be coked...

Gasket between the manifold and wastegate. Gives me a big exhaust leak. I run a TurboSmart UltraGate38 external gate on this setup.

I'm planning on it being turbo. I have a 60-1 CT26 hybrid that will bolt on after i clock it, but i wasn't quite ready to install the supporting mods to run that bad boy, so i tracked down a stock CT26 last night, will be picking it up next week.

In the meantime, i'll keep driving the car, but i'll be nice to it. No smoke on the way in to work this morning.

I did check the intercooler pipes 2 weeks ago, no oil in them. I'll check the shaft play this weekend and see what i get.

I only have about.... 8000 miles on this setup. The turbo has unknown miles on it, probably a million for all i know. Came off an 88 Supra Turbo. The head has about 15,000 miles on it at this point, and the bottom end has unknown. If i go by the odometer, it's got 182k miles on it.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

I drove mine like that for a few weeks. It actually seemed easier on the thing if I kept my foot in it. Keep it in boost!

I know turbos have different "smoke patterns" depending on where they are leaking from... I read a good post on it over on turbobricks a week or so ago... but I don't recall for sure and their search function is down right now

my turbo was leaking past the seals (on the intake side) but only in vacuum so at long idel i'd start to notice it... a quick stab of the gas would make it go bubye

the turbo is still to this day tight and spins smooth...

tuna55 wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I drove mine like that for a few weeks. It actually seemed easier on the thing if I kept my foot in it. Keep it in boost!

That's a bit of a tall order with this car... keeping it in boost means lots and lots of tickets.

The way it spools means i either have no boost, or all of it.

This thing trapped 118mph in the quarter mile when i first got it with exhaust leaks, and a crappy intercooler setup. It's a bit faster these days.

If there's little or no shaft play, no oil in the IC, and it makes normal expected boost, then it's not the turbo. It's prolly valveguides, though I wouldn't rule out PCV valves.

Stock IHI on my '88 smoked on starts only after 180k miles. Only happened once in a while and the car was out of my hands at 183k so I never really dug into it. The thing needed another set of shocks, a set of springs, some suspension bushings, the 5th gear reworked again, and a turbo rebuild. Instead I ended up in the Intrigue.

Still miss the Mazda. The stock CT26 in good rebuild condition sounds like a great solution to all of this and maybe it won't boost like a hammer vs. the tweaked turbo you have now.

Jay_W wrote: If there's little or no shaft play, no oil in the IC, and it makes normal expected boost, then it's not the turbo. It's prolly valveguides, though I wouldn't rule out PCV valves.

He didn't check the turbo yet, though.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: This thing trapped 118mph in the quarter mile when i first got it

Wait, wha?

Can I have it? That's quite quick.

if you're seeing oil consumption, its likely not the turbo, or at least not only the turbo. on my probe, when the turbo was so mangled it wouldn't even make boost and was fogging out the neighborhood the whole time, it still wasn't using a noticeable amount of oil. what was left of the oil seals were found in the oil return line.

Jay_W wrote: If there's little or no shaft play, no oil in the IC, and it makes normal expected boost, then it's not the turbo. It's prolly valveguides, though I wouldn't rule out PCV valves.

I'm unsure how i feel about it being valve guides... It's possible, but i'm thinking not. The head has less than 15k miles on it, it was a fully assembled head from Mazda that the PO bought and had installed by Mazda right before i bought it. Of course... not every head is assembled perfectly, either.

Of course, if it IS the head, it finally gives me the excuse i need to go ahead and put my built head on.

I think if i find out that the turbo is still ok this weekend, i'll go ahead and tap one of my other 4 valve covers, gut the PCV, and finally install my catch can setup and see where that gets me.

Otherwise, now that i've thought about this overnight, i'm going to buy the CT26 (pres589, it's going to hit even harder due to less lag. BLAH. :P ) and just keep it on hand. If i can hold out until the Escort is done, i'll pull the motor and finally clean everything up and do it right instead of just fixing things as they come up, and ignoring small leaks. Won't cost much, and may save a lot of headaches down the road.

If i'm going to keep this thing for a long time, it's going to have to happen at some point, and now seems like a good time.

tuna55 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: This thing trapped 118mph in the quarter mile when i first got it

Wait, wha? Can I have it? That's quite quick.

It's always for sale for the right offer. But yes... it is quite quick. I've turned the boost down a lot since that run for street duty, but even on the 9-10psi that i run daily, no traction until 3rd gear. That's part of the reason why i really don't think it's motor, and i'm not 100% convinced it's turbo.

It boosts too hard, and runs too freakishly strong for it to be anything real major. (At least in my head.)

I've ridden in these with the "normal" bolt ons setup. (ECU, boost controller to 17psi w/ stock turbo, 3" exhaust, similar FMIC to mine) My car on 9-10psi is light years faster. I'd guess mid/high 13s on 9-10psi, with a horrendous 60'.

Go ahead and put your built head, tweaked turbo, and catch can setup on, you know you wanna.
Amazing how quick your car is, I'd agree it's definitely not the turbo. Ran a probe turbo with normal boltons you mentioned sunda at the strip and it was only half a second quicker than me; then again, it was driven by someone my age, and he probably couldn't drive. lol

corytate wrote: Go ahead and put your built head, tweaked turbo, and catch can setup on, you know you wanna. Amazing how quick your car is, I'd agree it's definitely not the turbo. Ran a probe turbo with normal boltons you mentioned sunda at the strip and it was only half a second quicker than me; then again, it was driven by someone my age, and he probably couldn't drive. lol

I should mention on that pass that i saw ~25psi. Bolt on turbo Probe should be in the low 14s/high 13s range with a good drive and a good launch. (Which is hard to do in these cars.)

What i find this weekend will determine what i do. If the turbo is still useable, i'll leave it on there and all my goodies will go on sometime in June after the Deathscort is mobile again.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

corytate wrote: Go ahead and put your built head, tweaked turbo, and catch can setup on, you know you wanna. Amazing how quick your car is, I'd agree it's definitely not the turbo. Ran a probe turbo with normal boltons you mentioned sunda at the strip and it was only half a second quicker than me; then again, it was driven by someone my age, and he probably couldn't drive. lol

I should mention on that pass that i saw ~25psi. Bolt on turbo Probe should be in the low 14s/high 13s range with a good drive and a good launch. (Which is hard to do in these cars.) What i find this weekend will determine what i do. If the turbo is still useable, i'll leave it on there and all my goodies will go on sometime in June after the Deathscort is mobile again.

yeah he ran a 10.3 in the 1/8th so a little bit slower than he should have (I'd blame the driver based on almost all of the other drivers at my school (it was a school hosted event))

what about the oil inlet line to the turbo? Usually they require a restrictor to limit the amount of oil to the turbo. Could it be possible that the oil line is too large and letting in more oil then the turbo needs?

Just an idea...

DirtE30 wrote: what about the oil inlet line to the turbo? Usually they require a restrictor to limit the amount of oil to the turbo. Could it be possible that the oil line is too large and letting in more oil then the turbo needs? Just an idea...

I suppose? It was a turbo car to begin with, and i'm not real sure where the restrictor is on this car.

But that said, it was running a CT26 when i bought it, and i haven't touched the oil feed line, and it didn't seem to do this when i bought it.