Who knows volvos? What would be involved in this? Are they the same engine, and it's just a matter of slapping the turbo stuff on, or is it more involved than that? Also - the non-turbo came with a manual gearbox while the turbo was automatic only. Any reason that manual wouldn't be happy behind the boosted motor?
IIRC the turbos were available with a manual in Europe, so there is at least a Volvo manual trans that takes this sort of power.
I don't think it's as easy as just slapping a turbo on, though.
I would expect your weak point would be the clutch. There's a guy out here pushing a good amount of pressure from a Garrett through a 5 cyl with a Volvo manual transmission. I don't see how it could be extremely complex. How will it be oiled?
from what I have heard.. the manual box attached to the 2.4 is STRONGER than the autobox attached to the turbo engine.
Personally, I am waiting to see how this thought process pans out
I did some research on this a while back.
The short answer is that it is FAR easier to swap a 5-speed into a Turbo car than the other way around.
The motors are not the same and it is not as easy as throwing some turbo bits on a N/A engine
So what about that manual trans? Would it bolt up straight to the 2.3 Turbo motor?
The manual trans will bolt right up to the turbo car. There's something you have to do with the ECU/TCU, but I'm not up to speed on that. Mechanically everything just drops right in.
Keep in mind you're putting 200+hp down through the front wheels, so there's only so much you're going to do before it's just one wheel peel and torque steer city. It would still be a fun ride, though.
yeha22 wrote: So what about that manual trans? Would it bolt up straight to the 2.3 Turbo motor?
I think so. If I recall correctly, there was a change mid-production. So if the subject car is a '94 or '95 then the donated M/T has to come from a '94/'95 - likewise with the '96/'97. But that's from memory.
I never carried through with it, but I recall it sounded relatively straightforward.
The 5 speed found in the NA 850s and s60 v70s is nearly identical to the R versions in the Canadian and European cars. They do not have the torsen type limited slip and have lower first and second gears. The volvo oem R clutch/pressure plate is available here and works fine. many many people have successfully made the swap and there is a quaife unit available. no one seems to care about the shorter first and second. there are holes for the pedals and such so it is nearly a bolt on. there is a speed sensor wiring change IIRC, but its pretty cheap and there are lots of gearboxes in the yards.
the NA 5 banger is 2.5l instead of 2.3l with the same liners so there is less steel. the high pressure turbo 2.3 liter 5 banger has sodium filled exhaust valves and oil squirters aimed at the bottom of the pistons and higher compression. I think it's 10/1 instead of 8.5/1.
conventional interwebs wisdom said it was hard to turbo a non turbo car but then a guy did it in the last year or so with full documentation and it was fairly straightforward. I'll look for the thread- i think it is at volvospeed.com.
someone who successfully did it chimes in on post 43 of this thread:
Didn't the S70 (pretty much same car) come with an available manual here?
They all (850, s/v70) had available manuals and available turbos, but only came with turbo AND manual in the 2001+ v70r. None of the regular ones came with both turbo and manual.
dculberson wrote: They all (850, s/v70) had available manuals and available turbos, but only came with turbo AND manual in the 2001+ v70r. None of the regular ones came with both turbo and manual.
I've seen a couple 98 s70 t5 with a 5spd
westsidetalon wrote:dculberson wrote: They all (850, s/v70) had available manuals and available turbos, but only came with turbo AND manual in the 2001+ v70r. None of the regular ones came with both turbo and manual.I've seen a couple 98 s70 t5 with a 5spd
as far as I know 98 was the year that there were manual v70 and s60s from the factory- a few hundred I think. besides the manual 2004-2007 s60r and v70rs there are a handful of 2001-2005 v70 t5s that pop up.
there are several manual turbo's up at swedespeed for a sampler.
Yep, I had a '98 S70 T5 5 speed. Glorious fun. :)
I guess it`s a bit far for you, but around here 850/v70 with the manual and turbo are pretty common. A few examples:
http://qc.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-autos-et-camions-Volvo-S70-t5-Berline-TURBO-245-HP-W0QQAdIdZ415303680
http://qc.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-autos-et-camions-1998-volvo-v70-W0QQAdIdZ422652809
http://qc.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-autos-et-camions-Volvo-S70-T5-MANUELLE-W0QQAdIdZ438679582
http://qc.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-autos-et-camions-1999-Volvo-V70-Familiale-W0QQAdIdZ431040459
The +T has been done and documented a time or two, but you're not going to reliably make any kind of reliable power on a stock N/A engine. As has been pointed out by others the N/A engines are significantly different from their turbo siblings.
For a stock set up the S70 T5 was available with a manual, but a turbo, manual, 850 wasn't ever offered in the US.
General consensus is buy a turbo car.
Though none of the BTCC cars were turbo, so there's always the option to build a N/A car for power, but it kind of helps to have factory backing and Omega's money. 
There's a guy from somewhere in Europe that built a pretty sweet, stripped down, 850 track rat, powered by a N/A 2.4l with ITBs and stand-alone engine management. I know I've seen it on other forums too, but here it is on turbobricks: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=179112
OK, so, buy the turbo car and convert to manual. That seems reasonable.
Talk to me about reliability, both at stock and at elevated boost levels. Engine as well as other driveline stuff (trans, wheel bearings, axles, etc). Lets say for arguments sake it needed to be able to run wide open for 14 - 24 hours at a time... 
Might be able to get some turbo parts from this guy http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/arg-timing-belt-failure/58010/page1/
bigdaddylee82 wrote: The +T has been done and documented a time or two, but you're not going to reliably make any kind of reliable power on a stock N/A engine. As has been pointed out by others the N/A engines are significantly different from their turbo siblings. For a stock set up the S70 T5 was available with a manual, but a turbo, manual, 850 wasn't ever offered in the US. General consensus is buy a turbo car. Though none of the BTCC cars were turbo, so there's always the option to build a N/A car for power, but it kind of helps to have factory backing and Omega's money.
if I read that thread correctly... the LPT (low pressure turbo) engine and the NA engine are near identical except for a couple of oil fittings to lubricate the turbo?
mad_machine wrote:bigdaddylee82 wrote: The +T has been done and documented a time or two, but you're not going to reliably make any kind of reliable power on a stock N/A engine. As has been pointed out by others the N/A engines are significantly different from their turbo siblings. For a stock set up the S70 T5 was available with a manual, but a turbo, manual, 850 wasn't ever offered in the US. General consensus is buy a turbo car. Though none of the BTCC cars were turbo, so there's always the option to build a N/A car for power, but it kind of helps to have factory backing and Omega's money.if I read that thread correctly... the LPT (low pressure turbo) engine and the NA engine are near identical except for a couple of oil fittings to lubricate the turbo?
1994 untill 1999 The HPT is 2.3l has sodium filled valves and oil squirters a static CR of 8.5/1 while the 10.5/1 CR 2.4l NA does not have either. the 2.4l LPT has a CR of 9/1- with the squirters and sodium filled exhaust valves. after MY 2000 it gets more complicated with variable cam timing on one or both cams, longer rods, all the motors getting squirters eventually, bigger valves with smaller diameter stems.. all sorts of stuff.
DILYSI Dave wrote: OK, so, buy the turbo car and convert to manual. That seems reasonable. Talk to me about reliability, both at stock and at elevated boost levels. Engine as well as other driveline stuff (trans, wheel bearings, axles, etc). Lets say for arguments sake it needed to be able to run wide open for 14 - 24 hours at a time...
Stock they will apparently go a long long time as Volvo's tend to do. Now that the 850s are getting to 20 years old 300k examples are for sale. I have a 1994 HPT that has had a 17psi remap for 100k and with 200k on the clock now. No issues at all.
the manual transmissions are very robust, the automatic trans drive axles fit the manual box and are gigantic. there are "R" axles available that are really really gigantic. wheel bearings are big fat timken jobbies- they very rarely fail. the turbos are water and oil cooled, easy to repair, and abundant. a $40 MBC will take you to 12 psi or so before the stock map cant keep up. this guy is selling tunes for $275 and had a great reputation.
rear main seals leak and require lots of work to replace, the PVC systems craps out, it is an interference engine, the rods bend with too much boost too early (the ARD tune is carefull in that regard), there are fairly easy to repair for a FWD car. They do not handle very well with the mac strut set-up and the very short lower a arms required to fit the 5 banger crosswise, the brakes and steering are vague if generally good, there are immense traction problems that get more and more immenser with boost, the interwebs rumor that the auto transmissions break easily seems to be mostly to do with lousy maintenance. the axillarys are very robust. the AC evaporator is buried in the dash and is a hellish exercise in pain to replace. a car with a broken AC is worth at least 2k less.
The people that mod them tend to drag race or do the three beeps and film a felony thing. But they hold 6 quarts of oil, have a big intercooler and radiator, and dont overheat easily if everything is up to snuff.
JCViggen gets around the ring pretty quick in a road going stock internals 1995 T5R with an open diff 5 speed manual. the under-steer and traction issues are apparent as are the gobbs of torque.
Shaun wrote: They do not handle very well with the mac strut set-up and the very short lower a arms required to fit the 5 banger crosswise...
How much does that improve with lightening, lowering, and stiffening? I know it will never be a CRX, but could it hang with an E36 for instance?
DILYSI Dave wrote:Shaun wrote: They do not handle very well with the mac strut set-up and the very short lower a arms required to fit the 5 banger crosswise...How much does that improve with lightening, lowering, and stiffening? I know it will never be a CRX, but could it hang with an E36 for instance?
They can be improved a great deal and IPD has the anti sway bars and springs are available from them and a number of sources. Real coilover setups are available and both koni and bilstien supply dampers. IIRC I have seen the number 2800 lbs as achievable with your basic interior/aux/luxo stripping. Of course it depends on which e36, but "p1" 850/s60 can be made to handle "well" enough that the torque advantage might make for a fair if apples and oranges fight. They are quite slippery for mid 90s bricks (.28 cd i think). People with the tuning know how and smarts in general make 400 ftlbs at the crank on stock internal motors. The JCViggen character has another vid where his stock internals 850 pulls pretty damn hard to 180+ mph with a bit more room to go.
850s have very narrow wheel wells so even with fender rolling a 225 section tire is about it. So with an easy and cheap 400 ftlbs, the oem tall gearing, so so handling, a slippery shape one gets a very fast straightaway car that is traction limited. There is constrained camber flexibility for tire life and acceleration grip reasons that limit tuning for cornering grip. Fast tracks = fun competitive car, twisty tracks = nursing tires. Lots of front tire could help alott- box flares yada yada yada..
as the owner of an 850.. I can attest they do not handle great in stock trim. Well enough to be better than most cars, but you can still feel all that weight up front when you try to get this luxocruiser to hustle through a corner
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