Turbos are not as simple as you'd think

On my 1991 940 Turbo Wagon, I have an issue. My turbo has somewhere near 1/2" endplay and absolutely belches blue smoke at idle (none at boost, so that's fun... but the brakes hate it). Replace it, right? Lots of choices, new, old, diesel... right? Not really. It's my DD and I have kids, so fab time is limited. What bolts to the manifold? What bolts to the exhaust? Where are the oil lines located? Water lines? Wastegate actuator? Clockable?

Pretty much I have one or two turbos to choose from. Ready to bolt on it's like $430 shipped. I'm okay with that, but I know I am leaving some on the table because it's basically a newer Volvo turbo (15G for those who know the jargon) so everything else bolts up nicely. I still have to figure out where to find a flange for the output so I can modify my downpipe or make one from scratch. Ick.

Just venting. There are some Borg Warner new turbos that cost less, but would cost double or triple in actuality to make them work.

Conical flange 15g, 4" piece of angle iron for WGA bracket, and some hose to extend oil/water lines.

My 745t was my daily driver when I did the swap, the hardest part was getting a pair of snap ring pliers to reclock the turbo. I broke a pair from AutoZone and a more expensive pair from Sears. Finally picked up a 10 or so piece set from HF for the same price I paid for the craftsman pair.

Just FYI FCP Groton caries all the gaskets, nuts, o-rings, studs, lock tabs, and seals you might need for the replacement. The bracket on the clocked 15g I bought looks like it took all of 5 minutes to fab up.

tuna55 wrote: On my 1991 940 Turbo Wagon, I have an issue. My turbo has somewhere near 1/2" endplay and absolutely belches blue smoke at idle (none at boost, so that's fun... but the brakes hate it). Replace it, right? Lots of choices, new, old, diesel... right? Not really. It's my DD and I have kids, so fab time is limited. What bolts to the manifold? What bolts to the exhaust? Where are the oil lines located? Water lines? Wastegate actuator? Clockable? Pretty much I have one or two turbos to choose from. Ready to bolt on it's like $430 shipped. I'm okay with that, but I know I am leaving some on the table because it's basically a newer Volvo turbo (15G for those who know the jargon) so everything else bolts up nicely. I still have to figure out where to find a flange for the output so I can modify my downpipe or make one from scratch. Ick. Just venting. There are some Borg Warner new turbos that cost less, but would cost double or triple in actuality to make them work.

Rebuild that bish! For real. We've done a couple now and it's easy peasy japanesey fo sheezy mah neezy. OR, there are dudes on ebay that'll do it for a hundred bucks or some E36 M3.

I must admit that I am scared out of my mind to extend the oil lines with anything other than braided stainless steel stuff. I'd consider that if someone could tell me what the ends are for the banjos in the block.

JD, I can't find anything on there for the copper washers under the oil lines at the turbo - haven't found them yet at all anywhere. I guess I could re-use, but they are oil lines.

I didn't want to use the conical outlet on the new turbo because I have heard that turns into a rather large restriction. I have no data though. For the exhaust what I am trying to source is the first few inches of an exhaust pipe for the flat flange so I can have both the correct flange and pipe type for the turbo. I would take this and weld it to the downpipe as it exists now until I could find a 3" downpipe. There weren't any in the yard last time I went, either.

What I want is this (or thereabouts)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Borg-Warner-Air-Werks-turbo-T4-flange-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f4cc40e8QQitemZ300459770088QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I know the 15g isn't a bad turbo, but there are better out there. It's just all of this other stuff that sucks so much.

poopshovel wrote:

tuna55 wrote: On my 1991 940 Turbo Wagon, I have an issue. My turbo has somewhere near 1/2" endplay and absolutely belches blue smoke at idle (none at boost, so that's fun... but the brakes hate it). Replace it, right? Lots of choices, new, old, diesel... right? Not really. It's my DD and I have kids, so fab time is limited. What bolts to the manifold? What bolts to the exhaust? Where are the oil lines located? Water lines? Wastegate actuator? Clockable? Pretty much I have one or two turbos to choose from. Ready to bolt on it's like $430 shipped. I'm okay with that, but I know I am leaving some on the table because it's basically a newer Volvo turbo (15G for those who know the jargon) so everything else bolts up nicely. I still have to figure out where to find a flange for the output so I can modify my downpipe or make one from scratch. Ick. Just venting. There are some Borg Warner new turbos that cost less, but would cost double or triple in actuality to make them work.

Rebuild that bish! For real. We've done a couple now and it's easy peasy japanesey fo sheezy mah neezy. OR, there are dudes on ebay that'll do it for a hundred bucks or some E36 M3.

Truthfully, they can be rebuilt, but it would take me a weekend at my present "free time" rates and then I'd end up with a 13C - whoopty friggin doo. So I know some of this is self inflicted.

The dealer has the little copper washer thingies. I think the banjo bolts are M12x1.5 but I don't know what the banjo at the block is like yet...

tuna55 wrote: On my 1991 940 Turbo Wagon, I have an issue. My turbo has somewhere near 1/2" endplay

1/2"? If that's true, I'd expect one or both impellers to have machined a hole into the housings. If either have contacted the compressor or turbine housings, the unit is toast.

kb58 wrote:

tuna55 wrote: On my 1991 940 Turbo Wagon, I have an issue. My turbo has somewhere near 1/2" endplay

1/2"? If that's true, I'd expect one or both impellers to have machined a hole into the housings. If either have contacted the compressor or turbine housings, the unit is toast.

It might be more. I was bent over in the parking lot at work, wiggling the impeller back and forth and it was loose, but not terrible. I slipped and leaned on it, pushing it towards the rear, and froze. It moved a ton. 1/2" is probably on the small side. It still makes boost, oddly enough. It just won't idle without belching smoke at me.

I think I have a spare Volvo 740 series turbo around. I could send it to you so you could rebuild it without taking the DD out of commission.

You can get a 19T already clocked for rwd and ready to bolt on for $400! I have picked up a ton of 16Ts, 15Gs, for under $200.

I may even have an extra 13T I can sell on... Actually, I was going to buy one from Junkyard Dog (but I totally forgot, sorry, JD!). If he still has that one...

The 15G was clocked and ready $430 shipped, so the 19T price isn't too surprising. I just haven't found anything other than this 15G yet.

turboswede, thanks for the offer, but for the trouble and the price of the rebuild kit I may as well get something bigger while I am there.

And with a '91, you should have started with a Mitsu turbo, right?

I had to switch from the Garrett to the Mitsubishi on my '86. That means changing oil feed, oil return, water supply, water return lines. And of course the wastegate actuator bracket that you already know about.

As long as you have a mean nasty-ass pair of snap-ring (4") or needle nose (big-ass) pliers, re-clocking is super easy.

Alright, where can I find these magically priced 19t and 18ts?

Regarding the topic title: I, for one, have never considered forced induction as anythign but a huge mechanical/plumbing/tuning mess added onto a "perfectly good running@" engine.

Clem

@ "Perfectly good running" engine is meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

ClemSparks wrote: Regarding the topic title: I, for one, have never considered forced induction as anythign but a huge mechanical/plumbing/tuning mess added onto a "perfectly good running@" engine. Clem @ "Perfectly good running" engine is meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Right. If you need forced induction, you don't have enough displacement.

;-)

volvoclearinghouse wrote:

ClemSparks wrote: Regarding the topic title: I, for one, have never considered forced induction as anythign but a huge mechanical/plumbing/tuning mess added onto a "perfectly good running@" engine. Clem @ "Perfectly good running" engine is meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Right. If you need forced induction, you don't have enough displacement. ;-)

Displacement is heavy. Air is light.

No no no, displacement weighs nothing. I like to think of a larger bore as "lightening the block".

OK. Well then all that crap AROUND the larger displacement is heavy. :)

My engine makes about 1HP per pound. Find me a large displacement NA that does that. :)

Come on boyahs ya'll know there ain't no replacement for displacement, sheesh...

(I like turbos, they make cool noises, and my little 35lbs, as in weight, only pushing 30psi, adds alot of ponies)

tuna55 wrote: The 15G was clocked and ready $430 shipped, so the 19T price isn't too surprising. I just haven't found anything other than this 15G yet. turboswede, thanks for the offer, but for the trouble and the price of the rebuild kit I may as well get something bigger while I am there.

Uh, yeah except that you don't have a DD until you get it fixed. Sounds like you need to suck it up and get your DD fixed and then you can play. We all love doing upgrades in the guise of maintenance. However, there comes a point where you have to look at what keeps you rolling reliably versus what could be better if you had more time/money/skill.

A rebuild would take a couple of evenings to do. Purchasing a rebuilt turbo would be even faster. Then you just have to install it. No adapters or modifications needed. Just replace the main component and the seals, then move on.

As someone who hasn't had a working car in a year and has been working on his 924 for 4 years (after driving it once), I can say that it is entirely too easy to get sidetracked from what works to what would be better or perfect.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to open a diplacement vs. pressure can-o-worms...

but commenting mostly that I never thought turbos were simple (I've owned 4 vehicles with them and have never had a real problem with them...but they weren't there for simplicity ;)).

And even that was just a joke...so...sorry to threadjack ;).

Clem

Get it rebuilt at Magestic Turbo in Waco.

tuna55 wrote: Alright, where can I find these magically priced 19t and 18ts?

+1
And an 850 downpipe that will fit for less than about a grand wins you extra praise.

And thus it begins...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380262739541&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MOTORS:1123