Ugh, I want to hit the track

I love autocrossing, but I really want the feel of a race car and the speeds of a track. Wheel-to-wheel racing isn't my bag and its crazy expensive (for me), but there are more and more track events that allow an autocross-like experience. Show up, swap tires, do some heats, have fun, drive home.  Many members of my local car scene are moving to Time Trials, hillclimbs, Lemons/Chump, etc.  I want to go play as well. 

Having done some racing in the past, some of it very unsuccessfully, I don't want to do anything in a car without a full cage. Which means towing a car to the track, which means a tow vehicle and trailer do really do it right. Or getting a caged track rat that is street legal. Then paying more than $25 to go racing. Plus some hotels. Plus more wear items. Plus storage for the trailer and car in the off-season. And for clothes that don't catch fire.

Ugh, racing is so fun...why is it so expensive? 

So I keep trolling the interwebz, looking for that fully-built race car that I can drive to the track or dolly-tow with 3500# limit that is under $4K and is in great shape and has a ton of spares. Ugh, they don't existst, and even if I found one, it this just a dream or would I actually pull the trigger? I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket and drive past that sketchy used-car lot.    

I suspect the best deal would be for a 1.6 Spec Miata. So a decent car, add a trailer probably getting close to $10k. Then you still need a truck, like you said.

That's why I stopped even just doing HPDE's at one of the cheapest tracks in the country. If I ignore the cost of the 1.6 Miata I had. Just weekend fees, fuel, food, consumables....that was still around $700-800, and that was nearly a decade ago. Plus the multiple weekends in the garage checking over the car, changing the oil. I miss the camaraderie of the track and all that, I really do, I just decided the time/money sink wasn't worth it to me anymore. Especially now that I'm 2 hours from my home track vs 40 minutes. 

You can run class C in Lemons pretty darn cheaply. Especially if you buy a pre-built (they normally come with spares, check the lemons forum)

My class C X1/9 cost around 5k to get to the first race (seat, professional cage and fire system + misc safety gear/driver mods), and these days with 4+ drivers we'll run for 14 hours (assuming no breakage) for roughly $500 each. It doesn't get much cheaper than that, but you can make it a hell of a lot more expensive if you want too

Oh, and for 4 of our 6 races we have flat towed the far behind my SUV. The first race was a uhaul trailer and I just got an open trailer for it because I figured it was only a matter of time til we drew the short straw and the car wouldn't tow straight

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

If you lived near Lake Minnetonka you could go wheel to wheel racing in my Jaguar. 
 I've got 2 members and am looking for a 3 rd 

  The first event we're hoping to make is the Challenge.  I won't make it but I'll lend them the Jag, my truck and trailer. 
 I hope they have a good time.  

Where are you located?  Are tracks far enough that you have to stay in a hotel?  Track night is a good way to get on a track and go racing speeds for very little money.  To be honest I think you've put some serious constraints on yourself that are driving up the costs, these two being most costly. 

1. Won't drive a car on track that isn't caged
2. Won't drive a caged car to the track

I built a racecar for around your budget, registered it, drove it to work, then to track night, then 60 minutes on track, then back home (150 miles on the road). Entry fees were $150 + gas. 

B-spec cars are dang near road cars in race form. Also, there is often lemons/chuamp/LDR cars built and driveable with spares for your budget. They may not be nice at all, but they exist. I have a friend trying to get rid of an 01 Protege that was raced in Lemons and chump for 10 years.  It's probably in the $2500 range with spares.  Or you could buy a cheap car you like for a couple grand, civic, integra, mustang, whatever, put a roll bar in it and some brake pads and go? 

My point is, if I woke up in your shoes, I'd recalibrate my expectations and change my focus to geting to the track as soon as possible. 

I tried to buy it till my co-driver with a trailer bailed due to the storm last week but there was a 91 prelude caged for Lemons in your neck of the woods for $1,500 on racing junk.

Cached add

Since W2W isn't your goal, I vote HPDE also with a street car and camp at the track if you can. Looks like you have a Fiesta ST - why not take that out to https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2000396-track-night-2022-pittsburgh-international-race-complex-april-26

You live in pittsburgh and have an autocross car, do some track night events at pittrace. 

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

Hotels? 

PittRace is in your area, maybe 1 hour.    Nelson Ledges, maybe 1.5 hours.  Stick to one day events.  

In reply to johndej :

If you and pinchvalve need a 3rd driver, let me know Pitt race in April for the Lemons race, I also have a 4th driver.

If your only goal is to have fun then track days can be done very cheaply.

A single axle trailer shouldn't be more than 1000lbs (mine is 800) That leaves you with a 2500lb car, there are plenty of those around.

Aren't you 30 minutes or so from Pitt Race? My thought is by a fun little street car, add a competition roll hoop with some door bars (leave the front hoop out for street driving), add in some basic suspension and brake upgrades and go have fun.  Running a competition hoop with added door bars (running diagonally to the front foot well) would allow you to wear all the gear (Hans etc) and be nearly as safe as the full cage.

Racing/tracking doesn't have to be expensive if you are just looking to have fun. 

You can buy a track ready cars for 4-7K but you may have to wait a couple of months to find one. If you buy a light car you can probably tow with an existing vehicle.

There is $5200 in my F500 as it sits. For local race weekends if I ran used tires my cost (including maintenance & tires) would be $650 per weekend for 4 weekends. The Datsun costs the same to run.

TheTallOne17 said:

Oh, and for 4 of our 6 races we have flat towed the far behind my SUV. The first race was a uhaul trailer and I just got an open trailer for it because I figured it was only a matter of time til we drew the short straw and the car wouldn't tow straight

Yeah, flat towing a lemons cars seems like asking for trouble.  Cars often get significantly bent in that series...

Tom1200 said:

If your only goal is to have fun then track days can be done very cheaply.

A single axle trailer shouldn't be more than 1000lbs (mine is 800) That leaves you with a 2500lb car, there are plenty of those around.

Aren't you 30 minutes or so from Pitt Race? My thought is by a fun little street car, add a competition roll hoop with some door bars (leave the front hoop out for street driving), add in some basic suspension and brake upgrades and go have fun.  Running a competition hoop with added door bars (running diagonally to the front foot well) would allow you to wear all the gear (Hans etc) and be nearly as safe as the full cage.

Racing/tracking doesn't have to be expensive if you are just looking to have fun. 

You can buy a track ready cars for 4-7K but you may have to wait a couple of months to find one. If you buy a light car you can probably tow with an existing vehicle.

There is $5200 in my F500 as it sits. For local race weekends if I ran used tires my cost (including maintenance & tires) would be $650 per weekend for 4 weekends. The Datsun costs the same to run.

 

And if you can have fun driving 8/10ths you can go rent a Malibu and take it back. 

Even though I wasn't racing when I had Miata, I was was trying to compare my lines and times to the SM guys. 

trigun7469 said:

In reply to johndej :

If you and pinchvalve need a 3rd driver, let me know Pitt race in April for the Lemons race, I also have a 4th driver.

If you need someone to pick up a shift at Pitt, let me know. I'm going to be working for lemons that race, but would be up for grabbing a shift.

Oh man, I wouldn't mind getting into lemons but currently down in Richmond VA running HPDE in a NA Miata. If anyone needs a driver happy to pay for a seat in the mid Atlantic area 

I spotted the prelude and had a buddy who's also tracked his Mini tagged to go up to State college and start a lemons team till the weather blew up our plans. Just used that to point out that there are cheap caged track cars to be had.

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

"Wheel-to-wheel racing isn't my bag and its crazy expensive (for me), but there are more and more track events that allow an autocross-like experience. Show up, swap tires, do some heats, have fun, drive home."

Repeating what others have said...You just described HPDE from my pov. If w2w is not your bag and you want an endorphin release, take your street car, buy a $20 tent and create a memory. I personally love camping at the track. Sometimes in my RV, but last year I did a weekend sleeping in the back of my station wagon and one weekend in a hammock between two trees. 
I started out in a Ford Taurus for track days. If you want to really get out there, there is a way. And it can be done for just a few bucks over entry to the track. No more expensive than staying home and having one night out. Do it. Do it now. 

Also, everyone is different, but I would not recommend jumping straight into any form of w2w racing. Or probably even TT unless you acknowledge that you'll just be treating it as a track day at first, in which case...just save the money and do track days. After a few years of autocross I did a single track day and then jumped straight into a chumpcar race. That experience was overwhelming to the point of almost not being fun, I can't imagine what it would have been like without that one track day as a transition.

Also as much as "just do a track day/night" is still the right answer, having had my fiesta st on track before (coincidentally at pittrace) I would not at all recommend it as a long term track car.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

I love autocrossing, but I really want the feel of a race car and the speeds of a track. Wheel-to-wheel racing isn't my bag and its crazy expensive (for me), but there are more and more track events that allow an autocross-like experience. Show up, swap tires, do some heats, have fun, drive home.  Many members of my local car scene are moving to Time Trials, hillclimbs, Lemons/Chump, etc.  I want to go play as well. 

Having done some racing in the past, some of it very unsuccessfully, I don't want to do anything in a car without a full cage. Which means towing a car to the track, which means a tow vehicle and trailer do really do it right. Or getting a caged track rat that is street legal. Then paying more than $25 to go racing. Plus some hotels. Plus more wear items. Plus storage for the trailer and car in the off-season. And for clothes that don't catch fire.

Ugh, racing is so fun...why is it so expensive? 

So I keep trolling the interwebz, looking for that fully-built race car that I can drive to the track or dolly-tow with 3500# limit that is under $4K and is in great shape and has a ton of spares. Ugh, they don't existst, and even if I found one, it this just a dream or would I actually pull the trigger? I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket and drive past that sketchy used-car lot.    

Put that lottery money aside and start looking for the car you really want.  If you do all the work you can. Yes you might have to redo some of it. Maybe even a few times.
    Don't know to do something? Find some old Geezer who raced that kind of car back in the day and have him teach you.   It won't be the latest fastest car but that's not fun. That's about ego.  Fun is to just do it in spite of everything that says no. 
  Go to local club meetings and ask about that car. Who raced one. Go to that person and tell him what you want ask for help. Be willing to do the work. Or at least try to do the work. 

MaxC said:

My point is, if I woke up in your shoes, I'd recalibrate my expectations and change my focus to geting to the track as soon as possible. 

Oh I'll drive a race car to the track. I'll drive a gutted, no-cat, no wipers, no radio car a few hours to race. The issue is finding one that I can keep street-legal, PA has inspections and emissions. That would be my ideal, a caged Civic with enough working bits and interior to be inspected. If it were light enough, I could dolly-tow it to the track, which would be ideal because I will eventually break something. 

I have done track nights, and they are great and I will do more. But the Fiesta is fast enough to be scary, and its worth more than I want to stuff into a tire wall. A car that I can ignore some dents and dings, or swap body panels on the cheap would be good. For that matter, a Focus sedan might be ideal, there are still a lot of them in the local junkyard. 

I do live close to Pitt Race, I autocross there all the time. But if you have a track car, you'll want to hit some other events and having a cheap motel helps reduce the long days. 

Back in the day there were always IT cars around the region for sale or rent for entry level drivers. $3500 or so with a truck load of spares. A lotta drivers got their feet wet starting here. Caged, log book, race history, spare engines and trans etc. 

Been outta road racing for some years now and haven't followed it much but there should still be entry level cars around for not crazy dough.

Just need to be creative.

• There was a guy on FB Marketplace not far from me selling 2 running Legends cars for around $4k for the pair.
• Rent a UHaul trailer for $100/day with unlimited mileage for the few weekends a year you need it.
• Lease a Ram 1500 Classic for $299/month to pull double duty as a daily driver and racecar hauler.

It doesn't have to be as crazy as you make it out to be!

I started doing track days in a BMW 528e. Slower than piss, but I caught the bug. I slept in a tent at the track for years, and only recently upgraded from tent to car trailer. Instructing makes track time dirt cheap, but it dramatically changes the dynamic of the weekend.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

MaxC said:

My point is, if I woke up in your shoes, I'd recalibrate my expectations and change my focus to geting to the track as soon as possible. 

Oh I'll drive a race car to the track. I'll drive a gutted, no-cat, no wipers, no radio car a few hours to race. The issue is finding one that I can keep street-legal, PA has inspections and emissions. That would be my ideal, a caged Civic with enough working bits and interior to be inspected. If it were light enough, I could dolly-tow it to the track, which would be ideal because I will eventually break something. 

I have done track nights, and they are great and I will do more. But the Fiesta is fast enough to be scary, and its worth more than I want to stuff into a tire wall. A car that I can ignore some dents and dings, or swap body panels on the cheap would be good. For that matter, a Focus sedan might be ideal, there are still a lot of them in the local junkyard. 

I do live close to Pitt Race, I autocross there all the time. But if you have a track car, you'll want to hit some other events and having a cheap motel helps reduce the long days. 

I frankly don't want you on the race track with me.  I don't want to swap paint or body parts. Sports car racing isn't supposed to be a cut throat game.  It can happen but expecting it?   

z31maniac said

And if you can have fun driving 8/10ths you can go rent a Malibu and take it back. 

Even though I wasn't racing when I had Miata, I was was trying to compare my lines and times to the SM guys. 

With all due respect where did I say anything about driving 8/10ths?

When I was running used tires on the Datsun I routinely finished in the top 10 overall out of a group of 30 cars. It required absolutely driving the wheels off the car. By contrast running new Hoosiers resulted in top 5s but drives the cost per weekend cost up to $800 for local weekends.

While I may be a much better than average driver I'm not exactly Lewis Hamilton..........So again one can race cheaply and still get decent results. You're not going to win overall but you can still get some decent results on a budget.

frenchyd said:

I frankly don't want you on the race track with me.  I don't want to swap paint or body parts. Sports car racing isn't supposed to be a cut throat game.  It can happen but expecting it?  

I think Pinchvalve is more worried about collisions with the scenery rather than the other cars. 

frenchyd said:

I frankly don't want you on the race track with me.  I don't want to swap paint or body parts. Sports car racing isn't supposed to be a cut throat game.  It can happen but expecting it?   

It all depends on the class and sanctioning body, some of them are much more aggressive than others.  They call it "Spec Pinata" for a reason.