This is a serious comment; if I needed 5w40 for a sporty car situation, and it needed 9 quarts, I would mix the following;
1 qt 10w40 Suzuki motorcycle oil (for the additives really)
4 quarts Rotella T6 5w40
4 quarts Delo 400 5w40.
In my Suzuki SX4 I would just use the Rotella or the Delo or really about anything semi-synthetic or full of about the right viscosity.
spitfirebill said:Since the old Kendall was what all P-car owners wanted, why not try its current form, Brad Penn?
i see it’s now called PennGrade.
The formulation hasn't changed, just the branding. We asked very pointed questions of them since Brad Penn was all we would ever use in any flat tappet or turbocharged performance engine.
markwemple said:In reply to ztnedman1 :
NASCAR ISN'T racing.
Well, whatever it is they do, they had the most highly oil-stressed endurance engines in the world before they were allowed to run roller lifters. In many respects they still are the most highly stressed.
Call it racing, call it a three hour dyno pull. Joe Gibbs is generally considered to be the best oil on the market.
In reply to Knurled :
Says who. I know of no team running LeMAns that uses it. If you want a real test of an oil, it's LeMans. Plus, many of those teams don't do a rebuild for an entire season. The R8 would go an entire season with no rebuild. Quite impressive.
Be aware for those using hdeo’s that the new CK4 formulation has dropped the zddp down again. Some of these are down towards the unleaded gas engine levels. What’s worse some companies are not changing the name of the fluid to reflect the additive change that could lead to some confusion.
LanEvo said:In reply to rslifkin :
I thought damage to cats was the primary reason ZDDP levels have gone down?
Sort of. Between changes in valvetrain design and other additive package changes, the need for lots of ZDDP in most modern engines has gone down. So correspondingly, the amount in the oil has been reduced, as less ZDDP does provide some benefit to cat lifespan (and that's a big thing for California emissions where the cat is under warranty to 150k).
But for an engine that's going to see heavy use, I'd happily take the tradeoff of giving the engine what it wants / needs and possibly wearing out the cats 10 - 20k miles sooner.
So what would be your recommendation?
From lnengineering’s site:
“LN Engineering proudly offers the complete line of Joe Gibbs Driven lubricants and automotive fluids. In development for several years, starting February 2012 we will now offer DT40, a high zinc formulation for modern European Sports Cars in a 5w40 viscosity, specifically engineered for street use superior to any oil LN Engineering has previously used or recommended and has been thoroughly tested by Flat 6 Innovations and Jake Raby, coinciding with their joint development of the M96 and M97 engine platform.”
Goes on to say if you need porsche approved they recommend Motul x-cess.
Jcamper
pres589 said:4 quarts Rotella T6 5w40
4 quarts Delo 400 5w40.
I guess I’ll bite ;)
What’s the rationale behind mixing two diesel blends that are basically the same?
In reply to Jcamper :
I know LN and Jake Raby have one of "those" positions in the m96/7 world but there is a growing group that has begun to look upon them with a more jaded eye. Their set-up isn't as superior as they want you to believe (in fact, it may be inferior to other options). Plus, they have created a market where eveyone should do their IMS. At ~5% failure, and over 100k you're probably safe, it may be safe to say that they are crating a bigger market than there actually is. NOt that I don't trust them, but I also take their opinion as an opin, not fact. That said, the Motul option is looking pretty strong as an alternative the the redline, and Amazon carries Motul now.
I find it interesting that many, if not most, of todays engines are flat tappet and todays oils handle it pretty well.
I have been using Amsoil for years,a few different engines, all for long mileage or one year. Haven't lost an engine.
With NASCAR engines, failures generally come from a dropped valve, not oil related.
markwemple said:In reply to ztnedman1 :
NASCAR ISN'T racing.
You can certainly hold that opinion, but you are being foolish to ignore lessons learned from accelerating an engine from 6000 to 9200 rpm a thousand times over the course of three hours.
Maybe watch Martensville this afternoon...
In reply to LanEvo :
I like to cover all the bases.
It seems using race engine oil in street engines comes up now and then. One big problem with racing oil is it's not designed for long term use - it's changed after each event. As such, it doesn't have many of the additives put in street oils in order to keep performance within spec during repeated start-stop and hot-cold cycles.
pres589 said:In reply to LanEvo :
I like to cover all the bases.
It probably doesn’t make a huge difference, but there’s a theoretical risk that different additive packages might not play well together. Anyway, I figure the organic chemists and chem engineers working for Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Conoco-Phillips, et al. probably know more than I do.
In reply to iceracer :
Flat tappet with overhead cams is a very different thing than flat tappet with pushrods from an oil perspective. Much less pressure at the cam / lifter interface with overhead cam (lighter valvetrain doesn't need as much spring pressure and there's no rocker ratio to multiply the spring pressure at the lifter).
Ian F said:It seems using race engine oil in street engines comes up now and then. One big problem with racing oil is it's not designed for long term use - it's changed after each event. As such, it doesn't have many of the additives put in street oils in order to keep performance within spec during repeated start-stop and hot-cold cycles.
Very true. Race oil generally will have lower TBN, etc. and will get chewed up a lot faster in street use. Not due to being sheared to bits or anything, just due to inability to neutralize any more acids, etc.
Rotella T6 seems like the best option for putting in almost anything especially if cost is an issue.
Jaynen said:Rotella T6 seems like the best option for putting in almost anything especially if cost is an issue.
Agreed. For stuff that needs the thickness and shear resistance of race oil but doesn't really need race oil, T6 or similar (I consider the Delo 400 LE to be interchangeable with it) are certainly the cheapest and easiest to find options that'll do the job.
Personally, I'd plan to give it a fill of one of those, get an analysis kit and send a sample off the next time you change it after that. Have them do a TBN test on the sample as well. That should be enough to confirm that the engine is healthy and the oil is doing its job.
It's just funny to me because I started using it FOR diesels but then people were putting it in everything from dirt bikes to sportscars
markwemple said:Been using 5w40 redline in the 996. I can get Pentosin and/or Liqui Moly on Amazon but not me Redline. Opinions on quality (don't go Mobil one on me, not nearly as good as redline)
Oil brand preferences are almost as bad as Chevy/Ford/Dodge debates.
I hate to tell you, but you're not entirely correct. There have been a few hundred tests that say otherwise on your claims. Redline is more expensive than Mobil1 but its not really any better according to a litany of testing that has been done over the decades.
To boil it down (way down) there are three basic categories of oil: The lowest grade is pretty much any of the "normal" non-synth oils. This includes everything from parts store generic up through Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol. The parts store oils are just one of the brand names in a less flashy bottle. All of the base stock comes from one of a few refinery brands and then they add their own (remarkably similar) additive packages. The next grade is the same brands in their synthetic form (not all of which are actually synthetic; more on that below). The top grade includes Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, and yes... Mobil1.
You are also changing it frequently. Its not like any of these oils would actually get to a point in its wear/life that the engine would be able to tell the difference. Once you get into the higher-end synthetics, its like comparing the best distilled water brands. Its water. Its distilled. They're all pretty much the same. And they're all far higher quality than you need. I understand wanting the absolute best, but you did ask for "opinions on quality." What I'm saying isn't even an opinion. Its 40 years of independent testing.
I use Mobil1 in many of my vehicles because it is 99.99633563% as good as the pyramid scheme brands at almost half the price.
... except the F150. It burns enough oil that I'm not dumping a quart of expensive E36 M3 in it every 1000 miles.
On the "synth not being synth" part, the way the law outlines it is that synthetic oil is tested for purity. Refineries have simply found ways of processing mineral base stock so that it passes that test, which means they can put fossil oil in a bottle and call it full synthetic.
YMMV, but don't fall for the hype that $$$ equals quality. Especially with oil. You're not paying for higher quality, you're paying for branding and perception. Don't get me wrong, buy what you want, but I'm simply pointing out that your assertion that Mobil1 is "not nearly as good as Redline" is just patently incorrect.
In reply to curtis73 :
Whew! Thanks. Hope you saved the thread.
When the Honda was burning a quart every two or three miles, I just bought the cheapest stuff they had in the store, which happened to be some straight weight. My theory was "well, it's slippery".
Other than that, everything you said is spot on.
Some of my comments come from racing teams. One specifically, Flying Lizards Motorsports, when they were the factory Porsche team, were M1 sponsored and ran M1. I asked them about the quality of M1 and opinions. They said they wouldn't run the M1 we get. That they get a special racing blend that works quite well. Other teams had similar comments. So, based upon their comments, along with some other research that M1 is likely the most over rated oil (and I'm talking the car, not motorcycle and other specialty blends here).
In reply to markwemple :
Where is the head-smack gif?
Most every racing team runs a very special oil. You wouldn't want it in your street car and visa versa.
Don't forget, not every oil (or weight of oil) in the M1 lineup is made equal. Some of them are fairly average as synthetics go, others are considered quite good compared to the other options in that weight.
In reply to curtis73 :
Agree with it all. I use Walmart Syntech synthetic fluid for $17 5-qt jug. Auto-x'ing and dd'ing it was good in the Forte for about 9k miles. In the truck, it's good for ~10k. In the wife's Rio, it lasted 11k only because I forgot how longit had been in there.
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