Ultimate Street Car Association (USCA)?

Right on Andy!

The expanded series may be more stringent about interiors, but the post SEMA event had plenty of gutted-caged cars in attendance. There was also a lot of grumbling from competitors about the validity of the "Engineering and Design" phase. (sort of like the grumbling we hear during the "concours" phase of the $2013 Challenge) It's widely believed that company politics play a part, but I have no idea how valid that perception is.

Keith--- the "dominate" comment was made by icaneat50eggs. I just wanted to make sure folks realize these are serious cars, and going in and thrashing the competition would be no easy task.

So if I'm a millionaire who paid to have my car built, but did no wrench turning, I can't drive it?

I like that rule I hope something like that is kept

I was joking on the dominate part

Though I have no doubt that if the grm brain trust wanted to we could build a car that would be at the very top of the competition, title to whoever the best grm driver is and be at the top of the performance standings for a fraction of the cost.

I have a half a mind to tell Pops to swap out the gearset in his 9", mail a set of wheels/tires to him, and enter the Daytona one with his 68 AMX. Did I mention it's a Liberty 4-Speed and does 11.20's on the motor?

icaneat50eggs wrote: So if I'm a millionaire who paid to have my car built, but did no wrench turning, I can't drive it?

Unfortunately, it's owner OR builder of record. So if the person paying for it and the person responsible for bringing the overall build together are two different people, either of them can run it.

For instance, if you just so happen to have a one of the top "amateur" racing talents in the country (i.e. Danny Popp) as the mechanic being paid to bolt aftermarket parts to your already expensive car and tune/set it up for you, then '"you" too can run what would otherwise be considered an under-built car and still win the entire competition.

Joe Gearin wrote: The expanded series may be more stringent about interiors, but the post SEMA event had plenty of gutted-caged cars in attendance. There was also a lot of grumbling from competitors about the validity of the "Engineering and Design" phase. (sort of like the grumbling we hear during the "concours" phase of the $2013 Challenge) It's widely believed that company politics play a part.

Much truth here.

I can't find it now, but I do remember reading something they had posted previously where they talked about the media focus, and specifically encouraged participants to showcase the products of their sponsors.

It is also important to note that what makes for good tv and sponsor awareness, is not always "fair" in the traditional sense. It is more about rewarding those who have figured out how to forge relationships with motorsports parts vendors into an effective package that can showcase their products. With "effective package" meaning it performs well.

That's implied by this last bit of the rules.

Rules said: Optional but highly suggested: Should you be one of the lucky invitees of the OUSCI, we strongly suggest that you support our event sponsors and take every opportunity to show off your passion for the products you use. OUSCI sponsors pay for your entry. Pay them back by promoting their products. You and/or your car may be shot by various magazines or filmed for a TV show. Wear sponsors hats and shirts. Put the decals on your car. Your enthusiasm may possibly have an influence on future invitations. Overall, the entire industry needs your support so please do your part.

I'd have a hard time singing the praises of the title sponsor, given the nearly 100% failure rate we see with them. But I can suck it up, and if the battery wets the bed at the event, I'm assuming I could get a pretty quick replacement.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

It sounds like that won't be nearly as important for the USCA events, seeing as how they are not all SEMA show cars...

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Nahh, bring the battery that weighs a fraction of the "colour of the day top" and has the same cranking power.

Keith Tanner wrote: That's implied by this last bit of the rules.

Thanks, Keith. That was the bit I remembered but could not find (old dog, new tricks).

And yeah, I am convinced that having the right parts on your car adds to your design/engineering score.

kazoospec wrote: Sounds like the makings for a big dollar car show with some ancillary pretend racing.

gumball.

Joe Gearin wrote: Wow, a lot of negativity from something most folks know very little about.

I would not expect anything different.....the miata is one of the favorite cars around here, and they just slighted our resident expert. The forum members are a pretty tight knit bunch.

http://youtu.be/uGstM8QMCjQ?t=1m42s

I never said my car was a Miata in my communication with the event, actually. The Facebook intern was just a bit of a prick. Pretty much the opposite of the attitude of the Targa organizers.

It's been limited contact so far, Andy and Joe have provided far more information than the organizers have. To be really competitive, I'd have to build something new. That's not an option, so we'll see what the actual event rules look like. Then I can evaluate what would work best.

We have two potential cars at FM, Elvis and the Targa car. The latter is faster, but not as much of a street car. It's also quite clear who the owner and builder of record is :D Still, I've done enough wrench turning on Elvis to make a claim there. Betty, the late model V8, doesn't have the safety gear required for that sort of track work unfortunately. It would score best in the beauty pageant and it can carry the most rubber. Surprisingly quick track car. Hmm...

Keith Tanner wrote: I never said my car was a Miata in my communication with the event, actually. The Facebook intern was just a bit of a prick. Pretty much the opposite of the attitude of the Targa organizers.

Fine. He slighted one of our respected members, and thus may have lowered some of our interest in this series.

When they come to the Portland, I will make it my goal to compete in my 1991Firebird. I know I would probably finish close to last but, I have built my car to be a reliable AutoX, and track day car that gets driven 100+ miles to and from events.

Who knows maybe my AutoX and track experience will give me an edge against drivers with less experience, even though their car may have double the HP. Just getting out to an event like this and being allowed to compete with the big boys would be awesome!

I'll be interested to see what actually shows up at these. I jnderstand the roots and Sema competitors, but when you are throwing it open from a select few at the biggest auto event in the world to a series like this you wind up with a much bigger range of participants. Also if I was an auto organization I'd do anything I could to bring in new people. Obviously all car kegs don't think like tha though ( scca anyone?)

Hi Guys, I'm one of the USCA owners, OUSCI race director, and the owner of the 69 AMX that ran OLOA. I'm also the guy that responded to Keith about his car and I'm supplying the information to the USCA FB page. Seems like I'm not off to a very good start with this group.

Let me try to clarify a few things. First and foremost, the USCA is open to all makes, models and years of street performance cars. We are not looking for sema quality cars, but cars that are performance oriented, primarily built to drive on the street (not a race car with a license plate), and driven by owners that want to have a safe and fun experience with their cars on some of the coolest tracks in the country.

We are not trying to exclude any cars except those that are specifically built for racing competition. This is a street car series - SCCA, NASA and many others offer great events for race oriented cars. Does an interior define a street car? No it doesn't, but it sure makes it more pleasant for the occupants on a road rally. Will we allow cars without interiors to compete - sure we will, but the points will be structured to reward the "spirit of the event", which revolves around performance street cars.

More than just hardcore competition, we really want all makes, models, years and experience levels to come out and have a great time at the track - we are trying to bring greater attention and focus to the performance street car market which should help all the vendors, manufacturers and participants alike. We are not trying to offend or exclude anyone!

I'm pretty sure it won't be perfect right out of the gate, but we'll make the changes necessary as we go along. We welcome all the members of Grassroots Motorsports to come out and join us as a participant or spectator and try it for yourself.

By the way, I do know the difference between an LS1 and an aircraft carrier!

Please watch www.ultimatestreetcarassociation dot com or our FB page - this will be the only place to receive official information on the series.

Hi Jim,

jimiday wrote: Hi Guys, I'm one of the USCA owners, OUSCI race director, and the owner of the 69 AMX that ran OLOA.

Cool. They're neat cars. (I might be slightly biased since my folks have a '69 AMX )

jimiday wrote: I'm also the guy that responded to Keith about his car and I'm supplying the information to the USCA FB page. Seems like I'm not off to a very good start with this group.

Thanks for taking the time to create an account and post here to clear things up. It is appreciated.

jimiday wrote: Will we allow cars without interiors to compete - sure we will, but the points will be structured to reward the "spirit of the event", which revolves around performance street cars. [....] we are trying to bring greater attention and focus to the performance street car market which should help all the vendors, manufacturers and participants alike. We are not trying to offend or exclude anyone!

I'm hoping you'll take a moment to clarify the way the points system is going to be structured. As you saw, some members have concerns that points will be given to builds that incorporate items from specific (sponsoring) vendors.....but I don't need to mention that.....

jimiday wrote: By the way, I do know the difference between an LS1 and an aircraft carrier!

...since you've obviously taken time to read this entire thread.

JoeyM wrote: Hi Jim,

It's Jimi.

As in Hendrix.

Google Jimi Day AMX for a really cool car.

Plus a bunch for Jim, thanks for taking the time to clear some of the fuzziness up.

As youve guessed, this is a fairly tight knit group. We take builds pretty serious here - many (most?) of the members here have or are currently in the process of a serious build or at least constantly are working on a work-in-progress daily driver/weekend warrior. A large number of us are also regular competitors in those vehicles. We take auto performance pretty seriously.

But most of us are also living with a real world budget constrained by the fact that our performance dollars are whats left after paying to keep a roof over our heads. Many think of us as "cheap", but "realistic" is more like it.

We have seen a lot of builds that happen on a fraction of a "pro team' budget, that still make a lot of power, lay down incredible trap speeds, and able to create lateral g's well into the bonkers category. Many of those cars drive to the track and back with the hoosiers dropped into the hatch and some street Firestones swapped into their place for the drive home. We would hate to see that performance negated by a notable lack of omfgbling. Most of us just dont have the deep pockets needed to stack up in a concourse judging against a pro backed effort. That doesnt mean that the cars cant hold their own.

The fact that you were willing to take the time to post here and offer some insight means a lot. We just hope that this series doesnt put the need to show off ahead of the need to go fast. Reality shows have been bad to the Automotive enthusiast community...underbody neons and fancy interiors may be pretty, but make a performance car they do not. Watch 10 minutes of "The Powerblock" on Spike, and youd think bling = fast. No one wins that way, except the sponsors. If "go fast+street car" is the recipe for success in your series, then hopefully the ruleset will promote that. If "street car+lots of shiny new parts....and then somewhere after fill out the forms in the priority list is go fast" is the goal, then you may have a tougher time getting us on board.

Thanks for posting Jimi! I was mightily impressed by your show after SEMA, and think it's a great idea to combine previously separate camps of enthusiasts.

Thanks again for clearing things up and taking part in the conversation. Also, thanks for not having a thin skin. This is generally a well-behaved group of inmates, but they get a bit prickly if show is given more credence than go.

That said.....nearly ALL of our board inhabitants would love to witness what you've created. Either as a competitor, or a spectator.

Thanks for the clarification, Jimi.

I think the balance of show vs go will be determined by how the points are allocated. The road rally probably isn't for scoring, it's a demo to prove these are street cars. I can't see how you could score it other than pass/fail.

The design and engineering inspection is the fuzzy factor. The speed/stop, autocross and road course events are pure speed. If there's an equal number of points available for each of the four scored events, the event is going to be treading that fine line between street and race pretty darn quickly as the three timed events overwhelm the judging. Defining what makes a street car is going to become a sticking point for the event, especially since a lot of these SEMA megabuilds aren't street cars any more than a purpose-built rally car is. Maybe there should be points for the number of rock chips in the nose

A lot of the complaints sound just like the GRM $20xx challenge ones, really. The usual complaint there is that you have to work too hard to win With pro shops doing the work, that hard work comes with a price tag.

I spent the weekend thinking of options. If I can come up with a roll bar setup for the V8 NC, it is no question a street car.

Jimi, do you have specifications as to what sort of roll protection is required for the convertibles? Can it be removeable? On a Miata with a power hardtop, it's impossible to install a roll bar of any height that fits under the top. But if I come up with something that can be installed when the top is down, I can make the car safe.

I can see where subjective judging is going to be a big hurdle compared to the objective tests. Some ways I could see to keep objectivity so participants and fans don't see favoritism/bias would be to use a sound meter interior and/or exterior to measure sound levels. There could also be a temp test for interiors maybe done on the road rally portion. Consider how close to 70 degrees the interior could get compared to exterior temps on a sliding scale. A simple g meter with vertical axis on each car could help to demonstrate ride comfort/bumpiness with hard data not personal opinion. These three areas (noise, temp and ride harshness) are important for comfort and fatigue in a road car. Having data from a unbiased measurement tool instead of different peoples subjective opinion works better at quelling thoughts of bias and favoritism. There could be test like a speedbump or driveway test that cars would have to be able to perform or perform within a set time or without damage to qualify. Some of these things can be "gamed" but no one can say there is personal bias.

Thanks for coming over and clarifying. I really hope you throw the doors open and try to get as many people involved as possible.

This is an ambitious task. Mainly because what people will describe as "ultimate" can vary a ton from person to person.

For me, Ultimate means getting the best performance in something that I can dream to afford. six figure builds from pro shops at sema hold about 0 interest for me. In fact, shiny parts that add no performance value are a huge detractor from what the ultimate street car would be in my mind, because we are all operating in a world of finite resources. Unless you can outrun an f1 car, there is room for performance improvements, so any money spent on bling means that there is that much less spent on what I think is more important, going faster.

In fact, the definition of engineering lines up nicely with this. Engineering 101 is engineering is problem solving. Engineering 102 is GOOD engineering is problem solving with constrained resources.