Unbiased BMW opinion needed...

Let me begin by saying that I love, love, love, BMW 2002s, even the big bumper, square tail light versions.

Now that I've got that out of the way: What would be the better car to own, a 2002 or an early 318?

Forget looks, cost or future value. What would be the better car as a daily driver, autocross and track use and general car guy likeyness?

As an aside, I know that the early 318s are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to E30s, but has time and depreciation equaled the price differential between a 318 and a 325?

Please suspend all emotion before answering.

In any question like this, age and availability of parts becomes an issue. I am a big fan of early 140 volvos, but when you can't buy a heater fan motor anywhere, it becomes a far less useful daily driver.

Honestly, by now, both are going to just as reliable/unreliable depending on their upkeep and mileage.

I'd go for the 2002--and would actually love another 2002--even a big-bumper--as a beater. It's still lighter than a 318, cooler and no real downside, other than fuel injection, and you can swap all of that stuff from a 318.

Which 318 are you talking about: early E30 w/ M10, or late E30 w/ M42? The M42 feels like a much more modern engine.

I'm biased in that I own a 2002, but it's a more raw and visceral experience than any E30. It's also simpler to work on, but you have to like old technology like carburetors for that to be a positive.

You're in CT, right? I'm in NY, close to Danbury. I don't know if you have any stick time in an 02, but if you're interested I can try to meet you and let you look over and drive my 74.

Unbiased?

Anyone who can spell BMW probably has some bias.

That said, I mostly agree with Per, but I think age may affect reliability a bit more. The older cars get, the more fussy they seem to be.

And newer cars are more rust resistant, so even if you hypothetically start with zero, the 2002 is more vulnerable.

That's a toughie. I've had both. I still have the 2002, but believe it or not, emotions may have been involved in that decision.

Per may be right. I was going to say E30, but neither of them is probably going to make you happy as that sort of triple-use car without a lot of the same stuff being done to both. The front suspension on the E30 is, I think, a bit more modern and is closer to good stock, but if you're going to do upgrades anyhow, it'll be the same work (bushings, camber plates, etc) on either car.

The 2002 won't have a no-longer-functional trip computer, or random LEDs coming on. It, um, may have other issues.

I don't think you can go badly wrong with either one, and a lot will come down to the particular example you find.

I think the 2002 would be more fun to drive if the power's going to come from a relatively unmolested M10.

EDIT: another big variable is how much work you're willing to put into updates. Megasquirting my 2002 with an E30 manifold was a HUGE improvement (there was a detour into ITBs that didn't go well, though I blame my implementation). I always hated the Weber DGV throttle response/"curve" with the secondary that opened in last ~1/3 of pedal travel. There's not enough power to make that scary, I just want a more linear response, which I got with the 325i throttle body on the 318i intake.

For daily driver use I'd say the 318i. It's a newer car and a newer design, so if you compare an unmodified 2002 to a unmodified 318i, the 2002 is going to feel kind of primitive. I you can probably find a reasonable 325i or is in the same price bracket if you look hard enough.

If nothing else, you stand a lot better chance of finding an e30 with working air conditioning.

02Pilot wrote: You're in CT, right? I'm in NY, close to Danbury. I don't know if you have any stick time in an 02, but if you're interested I can try to meet you and let you look over and drive my 74.

Hmmm....I'm about 15 minutes from Danbury. Ever driven a 911?

My emotions say 2002. Resale value says 2002. You asked me to put those aside. So I'll just state facts as I see them. The view from the upright canopy and seating position, cargo space, sport/utility mix are just about perfect. The gearing needs an overdrive and the injection can be cantankerous.

I would love an '02 sized, weighted car with 318i injection system and a 5 speed swap. Or an S14 ;)

I saw a nice sport package 1991 318is at the junkyard yesterday. Look for one of those if you want an E30.

I am thinking a 318ti with M50/M52/M54 parts (aka, a 330ti), but those could work in an E30 too.

I know what you mean GPS. That's why I asked about a 318 and not a 325. I think that if I said 325, it would be a no-brainer.

I've had both (several 2002s). Stock to stock, e30 is more modern. My preference runs to modified 2002. Maybe a turbo'ed M42. For looks - 2002 all the way. Rust is the nemesis for the 02s - CT winters wouldn't be kind to it.

bludroptop wrote: Unbiased? Anyone who can spell BMW probably has some bias.

I can, and I don't.

I also have no opinion. Buy what you like.

I've never owned or driven either car, so my opinion is not only unbiased, but somewhat uninformed. That said, since you live above the Mason-Dixon Line, that is, in the "Rust Belt", I'd go with the car that DOES NOT have the rep for being a serious ruster: the 318.

Woody wrote:

02Pilot wrote: You're in CT, right? I'm in NY, close to Danbury. I don't know if you have any stick time in an 02, but if you're interested I can try to meet you and let you look over and drive my 74.

Hmmm....I'm about 15 minutes from Danbury. Ever driven a 911?

Once, a long, long time ago - too long ago to remember much. Email me if you want to set something up: a e gaspari at gmail dot com.

Buy whatever is less rusty. I ultimately preferred the E30 (more important - so did my wife). For us it struck a better balance of fun/"classic"/practical. I also preferred the rack and pinion steering, somewhat more available parts, and easy transfer of more modern E36ish components. Note: my 2002 was not a great example, and to be fair it was the only one I've driven. I didn't pay enough to get a nice one, and it needed some significant welding time and suspension upgrades (it was still stock) to be fun and safe. Little things - like being unable to safely buckle the kiddie seat in, added up...for me. A rust-free fuel injected 328i swapped E30 is being constructed in the garage...and the 2002 is getting picked up by it's new ambitious owner today. I thought about reshelling the car...but ultimately the risk (iffy title) and lack of passion to complete the car swayed my opinion. That, and I can't get aircooled 911's out of my head.

I really like the E21. Prettier than both, imho.

Thing to also remember, depending on where you live. A minor bump in traffic can result in either a crush car with a 2002 or a minor scrape in the bumper in the e30.

I am hardly one to tout safety features.. but I would hate to lose a beautiful antique car to some mouth breather because I was using it daily

318s in good shape seem to go for as much (or more) than a comparable 325. There's a lot of love for the 318 out there, and I think that's the reason for the values being what they are...

In reply to dj06482:

Is that the later (M42-powered) 318s, as opposed to the earlier (M10-powered) 318s? I think Woody was asking specifically about the early ones...

Datsun1500 wrote: How about in the middle? 1977-1980 320i. Not as square as the E30, not as round as the 2002.... find an iS and get recarro seats...

Part of me wonders if it would harder to find a rust free E21 than a rust free 2002...

It's hard to have an unbiased opinion without factoring in cost. As much as I love the 2002, a good one costs around 2x a similar condition E30. FWIW, in good condition, the price difference between a 318is (M42) and a 325is is minimal these days.

My toy car choices tend to be rules-biased these days, so I would lean more towards the E30 if auto-x is desired since a STX built E30 would at least retain some level a street worthiness. A competitive-build 2002 would be more likely end up in FSP. Granted, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a resto-mod 2002 fitting with a breathed on M42 (the poor man's S14).

For a DD I would also lean towards the E30 mainly because it's a more rust-resistant car. While I would love to keep my E30 under cover in a garage, it doesn't bother me too much to leave it outside. Even after getting pummeled with rain from Irene and Lee, the car was dry inside. My E30 was kicked out of the garage for my '72 GT6, which would be similar to owning a 2002. While I don't cry if it gets rained on, I try to avoid it if I can.

As much as it is maligned the E21 is pretty much exactly what I keep seeing described as desireable in this thread.

None of the finicky electrical gadgets of the E30 but retaining the seating position and control layout. The visibility and greenhouse feeling of the 2002 are kept. Manual windows, fuel injection and a 5spd. I agree the E21 is better looking than both.

Google says the curb weights are as follows late 2002 2200lbs E21 2400lbs E30 318i 2600lbs

Why is it always dismissed as an option? They have a reputation for handling like a bar of soap but in my limited experience driving them I would describe it as a fun, tailhappy machine.

get the 911...

ditchdigger wrote: E21 2400lbs E30 318i 2600lbs

The E21 chassis may actually be heavier than the E30. The Vorshlag ST-modded 318is ended up around 2350 lbs. The other E30s just got a bunch of unnecessary fat. You might want to look at the E21 front suspension design--the E30 was a significant improvement.

I daily drive my e21, love the 2002 but if I had to pick I would have to go e30. Bosch cis can be very difficult to set right but once sorted is very robust. EFI for the win, unless you would be o.k. with a carb then I guess 2002 would be hard to beat.

I also love E21's, but they seem to be gone. 2002's survived and E30's are almost plentiful.

The thing about BMW's is that they get driven. Buyers love them and then drive the crap out of them. If I could buy a new 2002 or late 80's 325, I would, but they're gone.

The only low mileage E30's I see are automatics. How difficult is a 5 speed swap?