Are these really that cheap? A quick ebay search shows that these are easily had for less than 15K (some as low as 12k) with very low miles and nothing (apparently) wrong. Are people just terrified of them? Whats the deal here? I drive on the outer edge of their range (85 miles a day) but can probably charge for 8 hours on 120 at work. This seems like it could actually be CHEAPER to own than my Insight. It would definitely be more comfortable.
So a tiny bit of research leads me to believe that there is no way I can make that work and keep my battery happy. I would be dipping below 20% daily in the winter. It MIGHT be able to do it but I would be regularly pissing my battery off.
They got the tax rebate, and drove for nearly free.
You don't get it.
Everyone is skurrd and noone wants to be holding the bag is my guess. I know there has been some 'greater than expected' battery degradation with those cars but they are still a lot of car for $15k with what i would consider 'almost no miles' on them. So far my average miles at purchase for my own cars is hovering near 200k miles. 
I'm more interested in a used Volt by far for not TOO much more money, but cheap EVs is still a thing i get happy about. By extension i would hope that some I-mievs are dropping well below 10k.
The tax rebate is not the dominant factor in EV math.
c'mon Tesla S depreciation! 
$50 to $100/month for battery pack depreciation. So, you pay for electricity plus a hundred a month to drive the thing. If you do teh maths on a typical commute, I don't think it's economically viable. Say 24KWH/day at $0.10/KWH, ball park it at $2.50/day for 75 miles. That's $50/mo electricty, $75/mo batteries. Call it $150/mo. Gas at $2.50/gallon (ballpark) gets you 60 gallons of gas/mo. If you got 25 miles to the gallon, you are at breakeven. My LS400 will do that, and it is a tad more comfortable.
Vigo wrote: The tax rebate is not the dominant factor in EV math.
It was for my son.
Just wait until the states start taxing by the mile driven, like they do for natural gas/propane cars.
Dr. Hess wrote: Just wait until the states start taxing by the mile driven, like they do for natural gas/propane cars.
that's when a lot of the people that want the gas tax to be based on miles driven will suddenly realize that they will have to pay, too, and they won't be too fond of the idea any more..
From what I can tell, it's more like a ~ 33% drop in depreciation. Remember these cars had a significant MSRP drop and now can be had for $30k. Factor in the tax rebate and it's about $22,500 out of pocket brand new. So $15k for a used one out of warrantee doesn't seem like a great deal from that perspective.
Not sure where Hess is getting $50-100 a month in battery depreciation. That assumes you need to change out the battery every 4 to 8 years, and I don't think we really have those numbers yet. Those numbers also assume there is no depreciation or maintenance on parts of gas-powered cars, which is certainly untrue. Show me a car which doesn't need a total of $5000 in predictable expenses over 8 years or so.
And in my experience the leaf will certainly NOT work for the OP. I wouldn't assume you can travel more than 50 miles without a charge.
I would say a lot of it has to do with battery degeneration...or fear thereof.
Mine wasn't much more than $10-$15/month in electricity to drive, and I put 1000+ miles per month on it.
bastomatic wrote: And in my experience the leaf will certainly NOT work for the OP. I wouldn't assume you can travel more than 50 miles without a charge.
This.
I think a lot of it is the fear of the 2nd generation EVs coming out in the near future. Double the range, half the recharge time, 40% less weight, etc, etc. Imagine holding an iPhone1 when the iPhone had just dropped.
Vigo wrote: The tax rebate is not the dominant factor in EV math.
I disagree, for the most part. Here is why:
Most EVs leave the dealership new not as purchases, but as leases. The leasing company takes the rebate as the first owner of record, and applies it to the monthly payment. This is how $40k cars were leasing for monthly payments akin to $15k cars. When you spread $7500 across 24 months, you have a little over $300 a month working to get your note down.
If we were talking about something that moved through sales rather than leases, I'd tend to agree with you.
Anyhow, these leases are over, and used cars have to compete against plummeting EV prices, improved new cars, a still present EV rebate, leasing new, hesitant sales staff, uncertainty about battery life, and a target consumer who is more early adopter gadget nerd than green crunchy.
A used Leaf would be on my short list for appliance, if I was in the right situation.
For most of my driving a Leaf would work for me. If I could plug it in at the airport parking lot, I could even drive one when I travel (Airport is almost 40 miles each way).
So, how much are these things on lease return?
I hate to admit, but I looked at wiki. I'm sure there is something wrong on their Leaf page, as there is something wrong on every wiki page, but I don't know what it is. "They" said that Nissan said 10 years battery life, 5.x thousand dollars parts to replace (plus labor) and Nissan had a $100/mo "we'll replace that nasty battery" program, so that all works out to $50-100/month battery cost over the long term.
My friends who had the leaf were losing a lot of range on it in mild san diego by the end of the lease and are very happy with their chevy volt now while they wait on the Tesla 3
Maybe tuna55 can chime in on his range, as he's had his car 18 months. I had mine for 10 months and 12,000 miles before a hailstorm totaled it. At 12k miles, I had no loss of range at all, and that was even after going through a brutal winter. I'm sure it would have started losing range at some point, but I hadn't yet.
I have gone 12k miles in Michigan with no loss of range over about 18 months.
Dr. Hess wrote: I hate to admit, but I looked at wiki. I'm sure there is something wrong on their Leaf page, as there is something wrong on every wiki page, but I don't know what it is. "They" said that Nissan said 10 years battery life, 5.x thousand dollars parts to replace (plus labor) and Nissan had a $100/mo "we'll replace that nasty battery" program, so that all works out to $50-100/month battery cost over the long term.
That's pretty much the same thing they said about the Prius.
But it didn't happen.
By the time the 10 years went by, better and less expensive battery options were available, as well as individual cell replacement.
Supply and demand. It cost $5000 to replace a battery today, but almost none need replacement. It will cost less when 1/3 of them need batteries.
Additionally, production numbers will continue to rise. US sales were 22,000 in 2013, and expected 40,000 in 2014. If it levels at 50,000, in 5 years there will be 250,000 more of them on the road in the US. More supply and demand.
I doubt there are an websites (Wiki or other) that would attempt to estimate the price of the batteries in 5 years.
Look at Tesla's new roadster retrofit as well. 400 miles of range sounds pretty sweet.
Nissan warrants the Leaf's batteries against battery degradation for 5 years, 60,000 miles.
Look for brand new battery technology (with predicted ranges over 180 miles) in 2017. That might make discounted used Leafs a pretty reasonable investment. If you could hobble it along for 2 years, in 2017 you could spend $5K on a new battery (or lease a battery for $100 per month) and give it a new lease on life.
Paul beat me to it on the $7500 tax rebate the original purchaser received. I seem recall Nissan sold the cars but leased the batteries meaning the buyer wasn't going to be on the hook for battery failure, was there an expiration date on this deal effecting price perhaps?
These aren't my cup of tea but could really be a smoking deal for a "newer" vehicle with all the safety goodies. Think great car for wifee or kid going to college...
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