used RX8 buying advice

rwdsport wrote: One of them also adds oil to the gas, something about the system that oils the engine being a common failure point. Insurance he says.

a lot of people premix religiously; others only when they're going to be driving hard (e.g., a track day), and others not at all.

those who swear by it do it b/c they claim that the location of the oiling ports for the seals don't allow the center of the seals to receive enough oil, which accelerates wear at that spot, which causes eventual (>100k) engine failure. the usual method is a very light (<1:200?) ratio w/ good 2-cycle oil. a japanese company (can't remember the name; starts w/ an I) makes rotary-specific premix oil, and a lot of the teams that race rotaries (including the 787B) use/d it.

Well, I guess I'll wiegh in on this also. My dd is a Miata and my daughter's dd is an 04 RX8. Both of us autocross our cars. I have driven it both on the street and autocross. Hers doesn't have the power seats but it does have the sunroof. If I lower the seat down my 5'11" frame fits better than I do in my Miata with the top up. Yeah it's not the most economical thing, she gets low 20's. Yeah it's not the most torquey - a factor of the rotary. It's actually misleading how quick it is. It is like the Miata in that it's a momentum car, it stays planted pretty well. It handles very well. If you want tire smoking power then it's not for you but for consistant power it does well. As mentioned before, they pretty much dominate B Stock and do well in STU in autocross. Especially with good tires. It is signicantly quicker than Miata's. I think it's also more comfortable and roomier than Miata's. The rear doors give good access to the back seat. The trunk is good size with a small door limiting it's usage. I think it's an either you like it or you don't kind of car.

On a side note, I find it ironic that users on a site that says the answer to everything is Miata is complaining about lack of room in a bigger, more roomier car.

Buzz Killington wrote: a lot of people premix religiously; others only when they're going to be driving hard (e.g., a track day), and others not at all. those who swear by it do it b/c they claim that the location of the oiling ports for the seals don't allow the center of the seals to receive enough oil, which accelerates wear at that spot, which causes eventual (>100k) engine failure. the usual method is a very light (<1:200?) ratio w/ good 2-cycle oil. a japanese company (can't remember the name; starts w/ an I) makes rotary-specific premix oil, and a lot of the teams that race rotaries (including the 787B) use/d it.

That Japanese rotary oil company is called Idemitsu.

P71 wrote: My 12A has 234,6xx miles on it, never been rebuilt. Ask wherethefmi how well it runs and revs

I cancel you out. My '79 had only 60k miles when it lost an apex seal. It had even been driven correctly since new (po gave me his log book with track notes dating back to 1980).

That's why it blew belt. Rotary engines do not like to be babied. Drive them, use them, hell even abuse them, as long as there's oil they will last. Sitting around for weeks/months on end and irregular driving, and babying them will make them break.

Back to the RX-8, I used to be a die-hard supporter. Now that I've driven some newer sports cars than it (Genesis Coupe, S2000, STi, WRX, etc) it doesn't appeal to me as much. I think it would make a great road trip/grand touring car in stock(ish) form, but I would honestly have to turbo/supercharge one to race it. I know what paper says, but the Renesis just does not have the same OOOOOMPH forward thrust that the peripheral exhaust port 12A and 13B's do.

When the 16X comes out I will probably change my tune, I'm greatly looking forward to that engine and it's possibilities.

P71 wrote: I know what paper says, but the Renesis just does not have the same OOOOOMPH forward thrust that the peripheral exhaust port 12A and 13B's do. When the 16X comes out I will probably change my tune, I'm greatly looking forward to that engine and it's possibilities.

i think that's more perception than reality.

i can't wait to see the 16x version.

i already know i like the car; i was hoping people might point out quirks or warning signs that a non-owner might not know about. now that i've owned a miata for a while, i know a lot more about it that i did when i was shopping, and wish i had gotten some of that knowledge before i shopped.

I dunno if it is or not. I know the RX-8 dominates it's stock class and STX nationally, but locally I've beaten every single Stock and STX RX-8 in two regions with an STS(2) RX-7. Also, when I go to RX7/8 Club drag races my slower in the 1/4 mile car will 60' much better and carry more MPH through the traps. I also 1/8 mile better. They really don't have the "urgency" the older rotaries have in stock form. Maybe I need to drive one with the right mods?

Point is, I think the Renesis was the wrong direction for rotary development, and it's going to take the 16X to make the RX-8 a real winner (short of a turbo kit on the Renesis). Otherwise the car is very good (except helmet room!)

The Renesis is dragging around a good deal more weight in the RX8 than the NA 13B's did.

Early RX7's weighed around 2200 (varied with equipment), the second gens anywhere from 2650 to 3000 (the 'verts were really porky), the 3rd gen around 2850, the RX8 around 3k. That last figure is hard to pin down, I'd say it's probably closer to 3100 pounds without driver. So the Renesis is hauling around a ~500 pound weight penalty before you even sit in the drivers' seat. Add to that the well known lack of bottom end punch of just about ANY rotary (and I too lubs me some rotary), mix with someone used to a torquey big V8 and there's your perception.

You got to SPIN that motor. It won't go otherwise. Short shift it and it falls flat on its face.

I drive a rotary, I know you have spin it

I've seen the Renesis as a swap in lighter cars and still not perform. The area under the curve is just not as good as the older style.

I guess my beef with the RX-8 (other than the helmet thing) is that I built it up to be so good in my mind (read the RX-8 vs. WRX thread) that when it wasn't as good in real life I felt cheated. It's just missing that something special. When I first drove them (in-between owning my ported 13B FC and the current stock 12A FB) I was enamored, but now they don't do it because the competition has gotten so much stronger.

Although in all honesty if I drive a bugeye WRX again at 227HP it will probably feel the same way.

I dunno anymore. There's a reconstructed titled RX-8 in Dark Green locally for under $10K with the 6-speed manual, cloth manual seats, and no moonroof. It's awfully tempting to buy it, a different helmet, and an upholstery kit for that massive plastic console, and drive the wheels off of it. But now I have thoughts of Genesis Coupes and 401 Gremlins in my head so it moved down my list.

Sigh, just wait for the 16X in a year or two and then see what happens. It goes back to a shorter rotor (ala 12A) but is physically taller for a better ratio. Add in modern port designs and direct injection and we could have a winner. 6th gear needs to change though...

Shorter/taller-you have conflicted terms there!

okay ergonomics have been discussed, as for service. . .

If the car is well taken care of and driven correctly you probably wont even need to use the extended powertrain warranty for an engine swap. Youd be surprised how many times customers come in straight up trying to get an engine when they dont even need it, you take it out ten minutes and rip on it and it runs like a hummingbird after.

aside from that throughout owning one for awhile you will most likely go through a couple sets of engine mounts and a radiator subtank if the lite on the dash bothers you. Id replace my coils every 40k or so cause thats when they start to fade, plugs as well if you love your car, haziness and fogging in your taillights like a motha, a possible airbag harness replacment $$$.

other then that its an excellent car and i enjoy every second of working on them. ive worked on quite a few and once you get used to them you really appreciate some of the engineering mazda put into it to make it easy to work on.

the autotragics are pigs and i dont care what you say a well taken care of and maintained rx8 feels good on the street, intake and a dump and your good. Its no rx7 though but it wasnt meant to be. nothing can be.

P71, i think you may have a freak of a motor. I've driven three different FBs, two stock, one with basic bolt ons. I've driven two RX8s. One stock, one with breathing mods.

None of the FBs even held a candle to the RX8. Either of them.

I found the FBs more fun, more tossable, way less refined, which i like. The RX8s felt faster, were faster, and were way more solid.

I don't know the history on your RX7, what's done to it, etc.... but none of the ones i drove were in bad shape, either.

Just my thoughts. Maybe if i owned an FB modified how i would want it, my thoughts would change. But based on my experiences, if i had the money, i'd be all over an RX8.

P71 wrote: I dunno if it is or not. I know the RX-8 dominates it's stock class and STX nationally, but locally I've beaten every single Stock and STX RX-8 in two regions with an STS(2) RX-7.

That just means those people sucked as drivers. Local events don't mean anything when comparing cars. There is just too much variation in driver skill. I routinely beat two ASP Z06 Corvettes locally in my ES Miata but doesn't mean my car is faster.

But yes, the RX-8 has dominated B Stock ever since the S2000 got moved to A Stock. Specifically in the hands of a guy named Jason Isley.

They just got moved down to STX this year from STU where they were totally uncompetative. Until nationals rolls around its unknown how well they'll do in STX.

Joshua,

Shorter lengthwise. The 13B is a 12A with "fatter" rotors. As in the thickness of the triangle. Mazda (and racers) figured out that rotaries are more efficient with a tall, short rotor (big triangle, not very thick) so the 16X is less thick (shorter) to match the 12A but a lot taller (bigger triangle, physical size/height of engine is bigger) to take advantage of that ratio.

Celica,

It's not just my car. Every N/A RX-7 I have driven (SA, FB, and FC) has felt faster than the 3 RX-8's I've driven. In actual numbers my 12A, even stock, out-dragged two RX-8's the first half of the track. OK, so that one might be driver skill, but the more powerful car should always MPH higher in drag racing, and they just don't.

Jason,

Good point, except our local guys go to Nationals. I'm not talking about average joe local driver, these are some of our top guys. Maybe our course are too short or surfaces too rough? I did notice that the RX-8 handled a lot better on smooth roads and once you got onto some bumpy/cragged pavement it got jittery.

P71 wrote: That's why it blew belt. Rotary engines do *not* like to be babied. Drive them, use them, hell even abuse them, as long as there's oil they will last. Sitting around for weeks/months on end and irregular driving, and babying them *will* make them break.

I see I did not convey this properly.

edit when I say it had been "driven correctly", I mean "raced everywhere"

It had NEVER been babied. He told me he had a five point harness in it before he even hung the first set of plates on it. The car was tracked and autocrossed almost as often as it was driven on the street. Right up until that seal let go.

Oh damn. With the year and mileage you gave it sounded like one of those never-driven, babied, "collector" SA's. Yup, you cancel me out then.

John's FB runs pretty good, but since we know for a fact that his car is at least 4 RX-7's I'm going to assume that the engine is rebuilt.

I had an '84 with a 12A. It died at around 80K. It seemed like it had been well cared for, but I didn't have the receipts from the prior owner. What I hated is that it just died without warning. I was going down the street at 35 mph and it went from running seemingly perfectly to needing an engine replacement in a millisecond. I bought an old Z car and never looked back.

I used to love rotaries, but they've become less impressive over time (through no fault of their own). Over the past 30 years, piston engines have greatly improved their power and smoothness. Rotaries don't have any important advantages anymore. They have become little more than a fun novelty. I'd still buy an RX-8 for the right price because they handle well and are fun to drive.

Wow. Convo's about Rx-7/8's always devolve into discussions of the perceived reliability of the wankel motor.

Xceler8x wrote: Wow. Convo's about Rx-7/8's always devolve into discussions of the perceived reliability of the wankel motor.

Without fail my friend, without fail.

Crap, all this talk about babied rotaries has me worried a little. My FC's engine was rebuilt in 2000 and only had about 10K miles put on it before I bought it in Nov. 2008. I've owned it for less than a year and I've already put 3k miles on it. I really hope that dosn't doom it to die at ~60k like some of the former SA/FB owners here experienced.

it will or it won't. there isn't anything you can do about it.

For what it is worth I have had five first gens and driven every generation of RX-7 and an RX-8.

My current GSL-SE went to 195,000 (original motor) when I pulled the motor. It was still showing good compression numbers. The streetported motor that replaced it lasted all of maybe 10K miles when an unknown object went through it.

My first GSL-SE had 180,000 when my friend wrecked it and bought it from me. He jerry rigged it and drove it to 230,000 (original motor) and gave it back to me when he got a newer car. It was smoking from bad coolant seals and I sold it to another RX-7 owner and I have no idea what happened from there. Still ran very well but would smoke badly on startup if you let it sit for more than a couple days.

My third GSL-SE had 284,000 and smoked a little on start up but had bad break up above 4k RPM. I sold it to a friend and it is sitting in storage.

My 79 RX-7 has 107,000 miles and smokes like a banshee over 4k. Bad oil control seals. Should run well like this for a while but I look like James bond if I run it hard.

My new 79 RX-7 had 47,000 original miles. I doubt I will drive it enought to see if will last over 100k.

I drove a new RX-8 (40th anniversary) that we had at the office a little while back. I really liked it. No one at the office complained about head room. ( I am 5,10 with a 30-32 inseam). It did not seem as fast as my current modified (160rwhp) GSL-SE but was certainly faster than a stock NA 13b or 12a. I was impressed with the car and am considering one for the future. If they come out with the 16X I will try to buy one. I also drove a Pettit supercharged RX-8. That felt closer to a GTO my buddy has than my RX-7. It was a serious performer with plenty of torque and pumped out over 300rwhp.

I find it funny that people bag on the RX-8s lack of power. Sure it isn't a torque monster and you need to wring it out to make it move but they do run mid 14's in the 1/4.

In comparison the new Gensis Coupe which is creating a lot of buzz is rated at 15.4 (2.0T) and mid 14's (V6). Man that RX-8 is slow. Granted I believe the Genisis will have a better aftermarket since no one yet found any effective way to make much more power out of an RX-8 without going turbo or a supercharger.

I've never heard of a stock RX-8 going quicker than a 14.8. Most are in the low 15's.

P71 wrote: I've never heard of a stock RX-8 going quicker than a 14.8. Most are in the low 15's.

LOL, learn 2 drive, nub.

Ahahahahaaaaa!!!!

You're talking to the defending Portland track Champion bubba. I also was resposible for the 8th fastest 100% factory stock GTO pass in the world.

Mazda's own spec on even the new R3 is 14.8@ 95.2

P71 wrote: Ahahahahaaaaa!!!! You're talking to the *defending* Portland track Champion bubba. I also was resposible for the 8th fastest 100% factory stock GTO pass *in the world*. Mazda's own spec on even the new R3 is 14.8@ 95.2

More like learn to humor, ammi right, folks?