I'm in Houston so there's every dealer everywhere. When I bought my 2 I visited four dealers all within a 35 minute drive. You're right though, I should Che k out all of them. If I'm going to make a rational decision it should be completely rational. Historically I'm happier when I make emotional car decisions though.
There are quite a few AWD minivans out there. Toyota sells one that does 90mph in the 1/4 and looks amazing on aftermarket wheels. 
It's the race car towing that's the issue with a minivan. I'm actually trying to keep the fleet the same size here instead of adding another car, whish is admittedly strange for me.
Wait, the alternative is M5?!
So this:
vs. this:
Which one would your kids really be happier in?
The confounding factor is me trying to be rational. Once a year the family migrates from the Gulf coast to the Great Lakes at the beginning of summer. At the end of summer we migrate back. The M5 would not be able to go with us. Right now I'm staring that trip in the face and that makes finding an M5, buying it, getting to drive it for a few weeks and then putting it in the garage seem silly. Come October I'll probably feel differently.
My kids do love the back seat of the 911. I'm sure they would love the M5.
What about this?
http://bit.ly/1dAQjSO
Tom Suddard wrote: What about this? http://bit.ly/1dAQjSO
The question is, who gets to ride in the trailer. 
Family of six. At home running around it would be fine. But I'm pretty sure Mrs. Deuce would not like me to tell her she can't come hang out at all during the summer.
mazdeuce wrote:Tom Suddard wrote: What about this? http://bit.ly/1dAQjSOThe question is, who gets to ride in the trailer.
So the M5 is out, but what about a Mercedes AMG wagon, or an Audi? Get a trailer, throw all the luggage in the trailer (or in a roof-rack carrier), and away you go. Jump seats are in those ones, I believe. Unfortunately, there is no M5 wagon in the US (or any 5 series wagon anymore), and the CTS-V doesn't have the "way back" seat.
I want either an R63 AMG (which is unobtainable, but I'd but today if I could find one) or an E55 AMG wagon. If I do that then I keep the truck for tkwing the racecar and other truck stuff and add a car to the fleet. I put a hitch on it and away we go. That's the emotional decision. That's what my 10 year old self wants to do.
I think the Nissan NV is cool because I hate the idea of a dogbox. I like a hood. The NV has a hood. Downside is the NV gets bad gas mileage even by van standards. Some owners avg as low as 11mpg over a year. That sucks, literally. I don't think I've ever read someone breaking 20mpg with them, even empty.
I'm excited about the Dodge ProMaster City. Basically a Fiat Doblo with an angry face. It'll be almost as tall as the 1st generation Ford Transit Connect, but a little longer. Around 7' from seatback to rear door. Long enough to stretch out in back.
Tom_Spangler wrote:mazdeuce wrote: Vans are far superior to full sized SUV's in the same way mini vans are superior to CUV's. They just are.I see that it doesn't snow where you live. Because in some parts of this great nation, the ability to get 4wd makes all the difference.
My Chevy Express with winter tires is pretty good in the snow.I have busted thru some impressive drifts with it.Tires make a big difference
Ian F wrote:mazdeuce wrote: Does anyone know off hand how the seats in the GM vans come out? The Nissan's are designed to be mucked with, but I can't tell what the procedure is on the Chevy and Google won't give up any answers.From what I've seen with factory-built models (vs. conversions and buses), in most passenger vans the seats latch into receptacles on the floor. They're still fairly bulky and heavy, so it's probably not a task you'd want to do every day. IMHO, if you're trekking out to a Nissan dealer, you may as well look at GM and Ferd vans as well. Maybe even Sprinters if there's a dealer nearby (not all M-B dealers sell/service Sprinters). I'd probably skip Dodge since they're FWD and the only positive to their looks is they make the Nissan less hideous.
Ian is correct,the front of the seat hooks into the floor and then you put pins in for the rear.He is also correct they are kind of heavy and bulky.The rear seat sits 4,its the worst.The middle seats sit 3 they are not as bad
Skip the dodge because they're FWD? Huh? Probably better in the snow than RWD. Is there some other reason that RWD is better for this kind of vehicle? That's a rhetorical question, the factual answer is no.
The best answer i see for why to avoid the dodge is that i dont see where you can build one with rear seats from the factory, and the upfitters probably charge ludicrous amounts for the 'quality' of work they're providing.
How about a Ford Flex?: http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=601207549&listingRecNum=2&criteria=feedSegId%3D28705%26rpp%3D50%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26requestorTrackingInfo%3DRTB_SEARCH%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26stkTypId%3D28881%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26rn%3D0%26zc%3D77002%26rd%3D75%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26mdId%3D21136%26stkTyp%3DU%26mkId%3D20015%26prMn%3D0%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMx%3D16000&aff=national&listType=1
Tons of room for minions and cargo.
Also, how about a Mazda 5? Can't get more oddball than a stick shift minivan.
Vigo wrote: Skip the dodge because they're FWD? Huh? Probably better in the snow than RWD. Is there some other reason that RWD is better for this kind of vehicle? That's a rhetorical question, the factual answer is no. The best answer i see for why to avoid the dodge is that i dont see where you can build one with rear seats from the factory, and the upfitters probably charge ludicrous amounts for the 'quality' of work they're providing.
There's no snow in Texas and he wants a van that can tow. Although it's rated for 5100 lbs, I don't know (we really don't need to have that argument... again...) Granted, the Sprinter I want is only rated for 5K. I dismiss the Dodge simply due to size - you can get the Sprinter with a longer cargo area (specific to my desires).
I got that van I mentioned
In reply to aussiesmg:
I like the look of that van. That's pretty much what I want to replace my aging GMC Van.
That'sma good looking van Aussie.
The most local Nissan dealer has a bunch of vans on the lot set up church van style. All the seats, none of the options, pretty much the way I want them. My wife and I are going to go drive them and see what we think. Why not an older van? My wife is adamant that the primary kid hauler be as modern as possible safety wise and modern stability control and a full raft of airbags are a rather modern thing on vans.
I am glad your wife feels that way, because those voices are sometimes absent on the forums.. Car enthusiasts can be downright stupid about assessing the value of safety features. There is a way to do the math that makes the safety features of a modern vehicle worth the price. Basically all you have to do is look at the cost of a mild injury on ONE passenger (out of a potential 6-7?) and you pretty much already have the price difference between a 10 y/o van and a new one.
I was recently shopping for full size vans, although cargo style, Ford and GM. Most of ones on the lots had the 4.6 or 4.8. My experience is that bigger is usually better, they aren't working as hard, don't get tired as quickly and achieve better mileage, go for the 6.0L. The GM's have better warranty and I thing some nicer options. Look at the long wheelbase window vans from GM and I think they will fill all your wants/needs. Typically the GM window versions are a 1 ton chassis. It will haul ALL the neighborhood kids, should tow great, bikes would fit no problem and you can bring home half the lumber yard. I had a window van years ago and the rear seat had quick release and was out in minutes but I think to remove the middle seats you had to unbolt them. One of my neighbors just got a Nissan window van about a month ago. It seems much smaller than the Ford or the GM versions. Does have the high top which may make it easier to climb around in though. Good luck on your search.
Drove the Nissan today and really liked it. Talked about price. The first price was higher than their advertised price. I pointed this out. Their advertised price all broken down included $895 is dealer stuff like wheel locks and nitrogen filled tires (really) none of which I'm going to pay for. Take off the $895 of crap, then round down $300 for a nice round number that makes me feel good. Nope. Can't budge a penny from the advertised price. As low as they can go. They're losing money on the sale!
Shake hands and walk away.
Two hours later they can somehow find $600 that they can knock off. Nope. You know what I'll pay. The van is a brand new 2013 and I just put half of the miles on it test driving it. Nobody wants this van. When you want to sell it, call me.
I berkeleying hate buying cars.
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