In reply to Kreb :
The whole thing is corrupt - remember when motor trend picked the Giulia as car of the year? I'd bet C&D promised to pick the C8 as a top 10 to make up for it.
Having said all of that, it does sound like a fun, practical DD that's not a GTI. I'll never own one but if I didn't have a family I might.
One thing I wondered when reading the article was why didn't they put the Model 3 performance in the test? I'd love to see how that does on the track.
Dave M said:In reply to Kreb :
The whole thing is corrupt - remember when motor trend picked the Giulia as car of the year? I'd bet C&D promised to pick the C8 as a top 10 to make up for it.
Having said all of that, it does sound like a fun, practical DD that's not a GTI. I'll never own one but if I didn't have a family I might.
One thing I wondered when reading the article was why didn't they put the Model 3 performance in the test? I'd love to see how that does on the track.
Lack of chargers in the mountains of California?
Reminds me of 2013 when the Fiesta ST took 3rd.
"The Fiesta ST is recommended without reservation. As a dynamic proposition in the real world, it is without peer. Were this magazine named simply Road, it would have the Fiesta ST on the cover six times a year. On the track, however, the ST is outgunned. You'd never get sick of the steering or the balance, but at a track day, you'd get sick of having your point-by hand out the window for every straight. Third place, with honors."
R&T gets it.
z31maniac said:Dave M said:In reply to Kreb :
The whole thing is corrupt - remember when motor trend picked the Giulia as car of the year? I'd bet C&D promised to pick the C8 as a top 10 to make up for it.
Having said all of that, it does sound like a fun, practical DD that's not a GTI. I'll never own one but if I didn't have a family I might.
One thing I wondered when reading the article was why didn't they put the Model 3 performance in the test? I'd love to see how that does on the track.
Lack of chargers in the mountains of California?
There's two superchargers in Truckee so....nope.
Will said:I've typed several responses and deleted them. So I'll just say their definition of performance varies from mine.
Keep in mind the PCOTY isn't based on outright performance of the vehicle (though it is a factor), but more how the car makes you feel. Also it's ability to take a beating at the track for hours after hours, with no signs of overheating/pad fade etc. I'd wager it's also the only vehicle tested that can fit a whole set of wheels/tires AND have tons of space left over.
EX: (Taken from QUIRKiT on vwvortex)
pinchvalve said:R&T gets it.
Exactly, and honestly if there's one car sold today that's most "Fiesta ST" like it's the VN. It's like the Fiesta ST, but on steroids. More power, mechanical LSD etc.
Dave M said:z31maniac said:Dave M said:In reply to Kreb :
The whole thing is corrupt - remember when motor trend picked the Giulia as car of the year? I'd bet C&D promised to pick the C8 as a top 10 to make up for it.
Having said all of that, it does sound like a fun, practical DD that's not a GTI. I'll never own one but if I didn't have a family I might.
One thing I wondered when reading the article was why didn't they put the Model 3 performance in the test? I'd love to see how that does on the track.
Lack of chargers in the mountains of California?
There's two superchargers in Truckee so....nope.
No idea then. It was just a guess. I didn't bother searching for chargers. Are their superchargers at that track?
racerfink said:
That was entertaining.
In reply to z31maniac :
Ah, that might be it - no chargers at the track!
Kreb said:Chevrolet's got to be pissed.
Because they failed to offer a manual transmission.
Just read the linked article. Interesting reading.
A slightly unconventional "win" is not a bad thing.
I generally find that car mags point out useful stuff. When I read reviews and drive said cars, or vice versa, I usually find they're right about the individual attributes. Sometimes there are things I like, or don't like, but personal preference is just that. Sometimes one reviewer can be a bit picky, so it doesn't mean you hang your hat on it.
I don't believe in the fairly widely held belief that these sorts of things are "bought." These publications live and die on reputation, it's worth a lot more than one off bribes would be. Sometimes their criteria is different than an individual reader might chose. eg. would you pick the sports car with the nicest ride and interior, or the one that has the most fun handling/steering? Where one strikes the balance between these attributes changes the result. I can often see "why" they chose a "winner," but it doesn't mean it aligns with my personal views. Rarely does a result truly make no sense, but they can certainly get it "wrong".
WRT the C8 - it was pretty widely reported that while it's very good, they might not have tuned the suspension for maximum enjoyment in the hands of a more serious enthusiast. It seems reasonable to me that it might not win.
The same is true of hard data tests like GRM's tire testing. Despite having a lot of sponsor provided articles/services, I don't believe for a second that they sandbag results for certain tires. Community results bear this out. However, the attributes identified through objective and subjective results may change the value to a particular person, which they often make a point to identify.
I 100% believe a the Veloster N would be more fun on a back road than something like a Corvette. I haven't driven a C8, but the C5, C6 and C7's I've driven are big, and on a windy 2 lane road you don't want big. Even a 911 is wide. If the Veloster rotates like a Fiesta or Focus but with more power, I'm all for it. I totally believe you'd be all over the bumper of a Corvette.
That said, I'd take the new Cayman GT4 over all of them.
In reply to morello159 :
A Veloster is one inch narrower than a c6 vette and like six inches [longer] Edit: shorter!. It's really not much bigger. The difference is all in seating position and greenhouse shape.
morello159 said:I 100% believe a the Veloster N would be more fun on a back road than something like a Corvette. I haven't driven a C8, but the C5, C6 and C7's I've driven are big, and on a windy 2 lane road you don't want big. Even a 911 is wide. If the Veloster rotates like a Fiesta or Focus but with more power, I'm all for it. I totally believe you'd be all over the bumper of a Corvette.
That said, I'd take the new Cayman GT4 over all of them.
I mean, that's a $100k car, I'd take it too!
dculberson said:In reply to morello159 :
A Veloster is one inch narrower than a c6 vette and like six inches longer.
Shorter. A Veloster is around 8" shorter in length. Yeah, only about 1" narrower. Or 4" if you are talking about the Z06/ZR1
Agreed though, the size difference isn't that huge that the vet becomes an unwieldy beast.
The Veloster also has had more than 6 years of real-world sales to really iron out kinks. Comparing it to any brand-new or unreleased car is...
In reply to ProDarwin :
Yes sorry I said that backwards. A 2 year old chattering at me is my excuse. ;)
GIRTHQUAKE said:The Veloster also has had more than 6 years of real-world sales to really iron out kinks. Comparing it to any brand-new or unreleased car is...
I mean not really haha. The 2019 and up Velosters are the second generation which is an all new design.
2011-2018 = First gen
19+ = Second gen
goingnowherefast said:GIRTHQUAKE said:The Veloster also has had more than 6 years of real-world sales to really iron out kinks. Comparing it to any brand-new or unreleased car is...
I mean not really haha. The 2019 and up Velosters are the second generation which is an all new design.
2011-2018 = First gen
19+ = Second gen
Really? Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks!
GIRTHQUAKE said:goingnowherefast said:GIRTHQUAKE said:The Veloster also has had more than 6 years of real-world sales to really iron out kinks. Comparing it to any brand-new or unreleased car is...
I mean not really haha. The 2019 and up Velosters are the second generation which is an all new design.
2011-2018 = First gen
19+ = Second gen
Really? Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks!
in all fairness its an evolutionary change.
I've spent some time in a Veloster N and I can confirm that it feels more special more of the time than a Civic Type R. The chassis is playful, the e-LSD in the Performance Package is phenomenal and the pops-and-bangs in N mode are actually functional, as they're audible signals of pulled timing to keep the turbo spooled, sort-of a form of anti-lag. As far as smiles-per-dollar, it has every new car I've experienced this year beat.
bobzilla said:racerfink said:That was entertaining.
Yes it was! Thanks for sharing that
I love that CTR. I don't think the N is comparable to the CTR, but it is high praise that magazines are making that comparison when the car is ~70% the price of a CTR (and that gap is widening as they age).
I wonder how a N with suspenion mods would do. Also I wonder if the performance gap actually grows wider between the two as you mod them.
bobzilla said:in all fairness its an evolutionary change.
It is for the R - although I have read a surprising number of chassis comments about 1 vs 2 gen in magazines (and not just about the multilink rear)
The N powertrain/diff/dampers/tuning is a whole new ball game.
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