Why bother? A Chevy 4.3 V6 is an easier swap, makes more power and torque and is cheaper to service. As a bonus, SBC hop up parts generally work in the 4.3 (which is, itself, a 3/4 version of the SBC)
Why bother? A Chevy 4.3 V6 is an easier swap, makes more power and torque and is cheaper to service. As a bonus, SBC hop up parts generally work in the 4.3 (which is, itself, a 3/4 version of the SBC)
KyAllroad wrote:docwyte wrote: Because the VR6 is a crap motor. It has head gasket issues, timing chain issues and makes little to no power NA. You have to strap a turbo onto it to make decent power, which then adds to the cost, complexity, etc, etc. If you're that opposed to doing an LS swap, the 1.8T motor would be a far nicer choice vs the VR6.Maybe you're thinking of the 2.8. Up the ante to the 3.6 and it's a decent runner.
Or 3.2 24V...Just saying
M030 wrote: Why bother? A Chevy 4.3 V6 is an easier swap, makes more power and torque and is cheaper to service. As a bonus, SBC hop up parts generally work in the 4.3 (which is, itself, a 3/4 version of the SBC)
I already stated why I would entertain that swap over a another berkeleying Chebby swap. To stay legal for Porsche class racing and also because berkeley pushrods.
Angry Corvair entered an SBC powered 944. I'd say that's the way to go. An instructor friend also instructed in one and he couldn't stop grinning after riding in it. Cheap horsepower and the guy down the street knows how to make an SBC reliable for competition.
If the local PCA club won't let you track with them. berkeley'em. There are plenty of other HPDE/Track day events that are full of less pretentious snobbery.
I know about the SBC/V6 option. A good one at that. I am wanting to keep things in the "Auto Union" family. I really want to keep away from a V motor. They are a PITA to service compared to most I4's. I dough it would fit but would a I6 from a BMW fit in there? That is something I have not pondered until now. They seem to be very plentiful. Hell I could have got a complete running immaculately services 2004 325I that had lost revers (the German auto trans with the revers drum failure) for about $1500 Wonder if that motor would have fit. I wonder if the car is still around.. .. . Hummmmmm
Xceler8x wrote: Angry Corvair entered an SBC powered 944. I'd say that's the way to go. An instructor friend also instructed in one and he couldn't stop grinning after riding in it. Cheap horsepower and the guy down the street knows how to make an SBC reliable for competition. If the local PCA club won't let you track with them. berkeley'em. There are plenty of other HPDE/Track day events that are full of less pretentious snobbery.
Jeebus, reading comprehension around here is horrid.
Lets make this moar clear:
I CAN RUN WHATEVER berkeleyING MOTOR I WANT TO IN PCA AUTOCROSS. IF I RUN A NON-PORSCHE MOTOR I GET BUMPED UP TO RUN AGAINST SOME SERIOUS berkeleyING MACHINERY THAT I CAN'T COMPETE WITH. SO THE SOLUTION IS TO RUN A PORSCHE MOTOR. THE VR6 IS THE ONLY PORSCHE MOTOR I'M INTERESTED IN SWAPPING INTO THE 924.
Flat sixes are right out and the 2.5L is a stupid swap into a 924 and the 924's 2.0L just doesn't have enough support to make it worth much development
I never mentioned track days and there are plenty of clubs around here that will let you run anything you want as long as you can pay your way and pass tech, even the marque clubs (Porsche, Alfa, etc).
Now, as far as the OP goes, as he said, its his car and he'll do what he wants to it for whatever reason he wants. I'm just attempting to enable him as we do here on GRM.
Now take your pushrods, off the shelf kits (bought not built) and get the berkeley out of the thread and go start your own Chebby powered Porsche thread.
In reply to dean1484:
There's an Audi I6 available that was based on the I4 used in the 924 and the I5 used in nealry all Audi's and it has been swapped into a 924 successfully.
Xceler8x wrote: Angry Corvair entered an SBC powered 944. I'd say that's the way to go. An instructor friend also instructed in one and he couldn't stop grinning after riding in it. Cheap horsepower and the guy down the street knows how to make an SBC reliable for competition. If the local PCA club won't let you track with them. berkeley'em. There are plenty of other HPDE/Track day events that are full of less pretentious snobbery.
My issue with this is not the cheap. Cheap is good but it is the easy part. Like I said I have done the whole V8 thing in many many cars. It may sound weird but I don't want that. I like the simplicity of an I4. Servicing it is cheap. Access around it is much better. I have come to like sparkplugs on top of a motor. There is plenty of room for power adders if I want to go there.
Again the V8 in a 944 is a great option but just not the car that I want to build. I am looking for a bit more of the Miata experience and less of the Camaro / C5 iF that makes cense. I started a thread a while back asking what motor other than a V8 and there were some really interesting ones suggested. I need to dig that up and link it to this thread.
turboswede wrote:Xceler8x wrote: Angry Corvair entered an SBC powered 944. I'd say that's the way to go. An instructor friend also instructed in one and he couldn't stop grinning after riding in it. Cheap horsepower and the guy down the street knows how to make an SBC reliable for competition. If the local PCA club won't let you track with them. berkeley'em. There are plenty of other HPDE/Track day events that are full of less pretentious snobbery.Jeebus, reading comprehension around here is horrid. Lets make this moar clear: I CAN RUN WHATEVER berkeleyING MOTOR I WANT TO IN PCA AUTOCROSS. IF I RUN A NON-PORSCHE MOTOR I GET BUMPED UP TO RUN AGAINST SOME SERIOUS berkeleyING MACHINERY THAT I CAN'T COMPETE WITH. SO THE SOLUTION IS TO RUN A PORSCHE MOTOR. THE VR6 IS THE ONLY PORSCHE MOTOR I'M INTERESTED IN SWAPPING INTO THE 924. Flat sixes are right out and the 2.5L is a stupid swap into a 924 and the 924's 2.0L just doesn't have enough support to make it worth much development I never mentioned track days and there are plenty of clubs around here that will let you run anything you want as long as you can pay your way and pass tech, even the marque clubs (Porsche, Alfa, etc). Now, as far as the OP goes, as he said, its his car and he'll do what he wants to it for whatever reason he wants. I'm just attempting to enable him as we do here on GRM. Now take your pushrods, off the shelf kits (bought not built) and get the berkeley out of the thread and go start your own Chebby powered Porsche thread.
Whoa lighten up a little. People can not help them self's. It is the apply a bigger hammer theory of building a car. I have just learned to live with it. LSX/SBC at first seems like the answer for everything but then it gets boring and the driving experience is all about the right foot and less about the ride. I did the bigger and more is better for a long time. As I get older I have gotten away from it. It all relates to driving a slow car fast versus driving a fast car slow. I like rowing up through the gears in an adequately powered car much more than in a car that if you dip further than half throttle you spin the tires. Just my preference and that is a big part of what motivates my car projects these days.
But why? There's nothing special about a VR6. If you want to do something like that might as well put a Audi I5 turbo in.
kanaric wrote: But why? There's nothing special about a VR6. If you want to do something like that might as well put a Audi I5 turbo in.
Again:
THE VR6 IS THE ONLY PORSCHE MOTOR I'M INTERESTED IN SWAPPING INTO THE 924.
Not having read the rules for PCA events, it seems that the VR6 is legal for pure Porsche cars/classes and the best option to make real horsepower. Same reason I'm sticking with the B6 motor in my autocrosser miata. It's legal, lightweight and competitive for the class.
Will they give you the blind eye because the VR6 is a VW motor?
docwyte wrote: Will they give you the blind eye because the VR6 is a VW motor?
No, they allow it because it was used in the pepper wagon, therefore it is a Porsche engine as well.
Also to defend the VR6, I love that engine, the sounds it make are worth a loss of 50hp compared to other engines. Having said that, compared to the original VW sourced I4 that the 924 came with, it's got a Bork load of power and torque. I love driving VR6 powered cars.
petegossett wrote: The VR6 sounds *almost* Italian in its engine tone, and also offers a good balance of wide/smooth torque, decent HP and fairly low weight in a pretty compact footprint. And as mentioned above, they take boost well too.
Cough... does anyone know what that "low weight" is? I suspect it's around 500 lbs for the entire drivetrain.
I'd do it just for the sounds they make.
Nick_Comstock wrote: I'd do it just for the sounds they make.
This is the kind of thing that motivates me more these days than all out performance.
Just to be a skosh pedantic about this point for all those who don't see the point of the VR6. Yes, VW released the 2.8 which didn't have world beating numbers for HP and torque. But don't lump all VR6's into that catagory. It sufficiently motivates Tourags, Cayannes, Passats, and R32s to keep them out of the slow lane and in a smaller lighter package I suspect the performance will be more than sufficient.
VR6's are crap, but they can be fast crap 
200whp NA out of the old 12v was a struggle, but do-able even on a stock bottom end (headwork, cams, all the little stuff). Toss even a crappy turbo setup/standalone on them and all sins of that head design are forgotten. I have email tuned over 600whp on a bone stock longblock (both race gas and E85).
If you're looking at keeping it NA a 3.2 motor (Touareg BAA's are CHEAP) I put down 242whp with just a mustang tb, 3.5" cold air, TT downpipe, 2.5" catback and MS3 on pump 93.
I have seen dynos of 3.6's converted to EFI making over 300whp on stock engines with a conversion intake manifold and downpipe/exhaust. Seems like a short put other than fab. PM me for intake manifold flanges, I make the only decent one.
For the 924 adapter, you need the stock piece of a 3.2/3.6 Touareg/Qx/Cayanne, etc. it lets any VR bolt to the 4cyl Audi bell. Other parts are available through 034, though I am not a fan of them in general.
turboswede wrote:Xceler8x wrote: Angry Corvair entered an SBC powered 944. I'd say that's the way to go. An instructor friend also instructed in one and he couldn't stop grinning after riding in it. Cheap horsepower and the guy down the street knows how to make an SBC reliable for competition. If the local PCA club won't let you track with them. berkeley'em. There are plenty of other HPDE/Track day events that are full of less pretentious snobbery.Jeebus, reading comprehension around here is horrid. Lets make this moar clear: I CAN RUN WHATEVER berkeleyING MOTOR I WANT TO IN PCA AUTOCROSS. IF I RUN A NON-PORSCHE MOTOR I GET BUMPED UP TO RUN AGAINST SOME SERIOUS berkeleyING MACHINERY THAT I CAN'T COMPETE WITH. SO THE SOLUTION IS TO RUN A PORSCHE MOTOR. THE VR6 IS THE ONLY PORSCHE MOTOR I'M INTERESTED IN SWAPPING INTO THE 924. Flat sixes are right out and the 2.5L is a stupid swap into a 924 and the 924's 2.0L just doesn't have enough support to make it worth much development I never mentioned track days and there are plenty of clubs around here that will let you run anything you want as long as you can pay your way and pass tech, even the marque clubs (Porsche, Alfa, etc). Now, as far as the OP goes, as he said, its his car and he'll do what he wants to it for whatever reason he wants. I'm just attempting to enable him as we do here on GRM. Now take your pushrods, off the shelf kits (bought not built) and get the berkeley out of the thread and go start your own Chebby powered Porsche thread.
How about a small block Ford then?
Also, I had no idea a VR6 was ever used in a Porsche design. Nice to know...
In reply to Xceler8x:
Yup. In the Cayenne (shared platform with VW and Audi)
docwyte wrote: Will they give you the blind eye because the VR6 is a VW motor?
E36 M3 like this just pushes me over the edge. I give up on this thread.
kanaric wrote: But why? There's nothing special about a VR6. If you want to do something like that might as well put a Audi I5 turbo in.
My original thought for a VR6 is that there should be a bell housing that allows for a direct bolt in. I heard that you can take a bell housing from a 924 turbo and it will make it a direct bolt in. This also makes the clutch and what not a rather simple thing using off the shelf parts. I am not sure that this is a true but that is part of my interest in a using a VR6. If there is another combo that will make the engine clutch a bolt in to the torque tube I would be interested in that as well.
Ok once and for all no more "Just put a SBC/SBF/LSX in it". Just move on. Go start a thread about that. It is a well documented swap that I have no interest in. Come on you all I thought you were a bit broader in the mind than this. Every 4th post is this. I, as the OP, specifically was not interested in it and did not ask about it. And have stated MULTIPLE TIMES in the thread that is not something I am interested in and gave my reasoning for not being interested in it
So to make it perfectly clear.
Got it? Good!!!!
Creepers I am now getting to appreciate a previous posters comment about reading comprehension around here.
turboswede wrote:docwyte wrote: Will they give you the blind eye because the VR6 is a VW motor?E36 M3 like this just pushes me over the edge. I give up on this thread.
Reading comprehension just ignore it.
Paul_VR6 wrote: VR6's are crap, but they can be fast crap
Paul,
Is VR6 with a small turbo making 225-250 hp a reliable no hassle level of performance for these motors? Obviously this means a properly tuned motor with good oiling and cooling but I am talking things like head gaskets, bearings etc. ?
Also do you know if the bell housing form a 924 turbo allows for the bolt up of a VR motor to the stock impeller shaft in the NA 944 / 924s ?
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