VW Congressional Hearing Live Now

http://www.c-span.org/video/?328599-1/hearing-volkswagen-emissions-violations&live

So anything good yet? I at work and won't be able to watch.

Sounds like VW will recall a LOT of cars. It will be really interesting to see what mods the recall includes, and what effect it has on performance and mileage. It can't be good.

Lots of people calling for them to buy it back

Apparently Congress is like the comments section on most webpages. Exact same statements. Exact same conjecture. Awesome.

Kylini wrote: Apparently Congress is like the comments section on most webpages. Exact same statements. Exact same conjecture. Awesome.

Most are equally as clueless as well, though a few had some good points.

Lol, I can tall some of you have never watched congressional committees before. Yeah, democracy can work surprisingly like the youtube comments section, THIS ISNT NEW. How much attention did you pay to the candidates (and not just presidential) last time YOU voted? I pay attention to congressional stuff frequently as it can sometimes relate in roundabout ways to my work.

As far as the VW issue:

It looks like the Gen1 cars (430k cars) will require a new catalyst or a urea system, or both. That is, in addition to a re-flash. Gen2 looks to possibly involve installation of a sensor. He was cut off (time for the questioner ran out) before they got to Gen 3.

Things will get interesting if they impose fines in line with other environmental things where they base it on the period of time the equipment was operating outside of compliance.

I doubt that a buyback will happen. It looks like they are more focusing on making things right by their dealers first. Only make-right so far to car owners is that there is a $2000 "loyalty program", (which seems in line with the instant trade-in hit the cars took from my reading other sources) which (apparently) only applies if you buy a new VW and have bought one before.

From his statement, if accurate/etc. the fix shouldn't adversely affect the fuel economy or performance. IIRC his statement was that it might cost 1-2mph top speed at most (yeah, what a performance metric..)

The EPA is not longer gov't funded. The EPA gets all of its funding from fines. Ergo, the EPA has to issue fines in order to self sustain.

Expect large fines. No buyback because that does nothing to actually put money in the hands of the EPA.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

LOL- I'm pretty sure many in Ann Arbor would find that funny.

None the less- if a company breaks the law- deliberately in this case, should they not face the fines that are allowed for in the law? The fines are there to prevent this kind of stuff from happening. IMHO, they should get pretty close the the max allowable.

The buy back thing would only happen if they can't prove the cars are legal in the US- so they have to take them off the road.

The Loyalty thing is pretty funny- "your car is bad, and the solution we make for it will be bad- so here's $2000 to buy another one of our cars." Too many people are bailing on VW for that to be a realistic option- I see lawsuits galore if a coupon for new car is actually offered.

JohnRW1621 wrote: The EPA is not longer gov't funded. The EPA gets all of its funding from fines. Ergo, the EPA has to issue fines in order to self sustain.

Actually the EPA has $7.4 billion of government funding to run on this year, and money from fines it issues goes to the US treasury.

GameboyRMH wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote: The EPA is not longer gov't funded. The EPA gets all of its funding from fines. Ergo, the EPA has to issue fines in order to self sustain.

Actually the EPA has $7.4 billion of government funding to run on this year, and money from fines it issues goes to the US treasury.

This is true. Agencies do not directly gain anything by the fines imposed, it goes to the treasury. Any funding is subject to congressional approval.

Here is his official statement:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: LOL- I'm pretty sure many in Ann Arbor would find that funny. None the less- if a company breaks the law- deliberately in this case, should they not face the fines that are allowed for in the law? The fines are there to prevent this kind of stuff from happening. IMHO, they should get pretty close the the max allowable. The buy back thing would only happen if they can't prove the cars are legal in the US- so they have to take them off the road. The Loyalty thing is pretty funny- "your car is bad, and the solution we make for it will be bad- so here's $2000 to buy another one of our cars." Too many people are bailing on VW for that to be a realistic option- I see lawsuits galore if a coupon for new car is actually offered.

Don't forget that Dodge and Jeep were ordered to buy back a bunch of trucks and Grand Cherokees by the NHTSA due to complete ineptitude with regards to safety recalls. Big, maximum allowed fines, too. Different acronymical organization, but there you go.

The loyalty offer makes perfect sense to me. It's something they can realistically do, and loyalty programs are everywhere.

Apexcarver wrote: From his statement, if accurate/etc. the fix shouldn't adversely affect the fuel economy or performance. IIRC his statement was that it might cost 1-2mph top speed at most (yeah, what a performance metric..)

Well, they are a German company, and the Germans I know would consider that a valid performance metric as they hit v-max on the way to work every day.

The ambulance chasers are already out in full force..... I already have a few advertisements for them.

Sad it looks like I'm being forced into a fix that may or may not work all that well in a vehicle that will end up with diminished value in the end....

Piss on you EPA. If I have to keep it, dpf delete and tune upcoming.

JohnRW1621 wrote: The EPA is not longer gov't funded. The EPA gets all of its funding from fines. Ergo, the EPA has to issue fines in order to self sustain. Expect large fines. No buyback because that does nothing to actually put money in the hands of the EPA.

If this is patently false, where did you even get this information?

Mea culpa, Mea culpa.
I was repeating something I had been told from what I thought was a credible source without actually independently fact checking.

Ranger50 wrote: The ambulance chasers are already out in full force..... I already have a few advertisements for them. Sad it looks like I'm being forced into a fix that may or may not work all that well in a vehicle that will end up with diminished value in the end.... Piss on you EPA. If I have to keep it, dpf delete and tune upcoming.

Why? Why is it their fault that VW cheated and polluted?

You should say piss on VW- they are the ones who deceived you that the car was legal to sell in the US.

edit- full disclosure- all of you know that my profession mostly about cars meeting the air quality requirements. But I do know many people at the EPA here in Ann Arbor. They are good people- a few have started some Challenge projects, other than our old on. They are just trying to keep this place a bearable place to live- health wise.

In reply to alfadriver:

Maybe I don't want the proposed "fix". I've lived through misguided fixes through the years as a dealership tech, I'm going to pass on whatever I'm being forced into from vw/epa.....

In reply to alfadriver:

Since you are a "man in the know" do you think it is possible that VW is just a company who got caught?
Is it possible that this type of thing is more common than currently revealed?

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Maybe I don't want the proposed "fix". I've lived through misguided fixes through the years as a dealership tech, I'm going to pass on whatever I'm being forced into from vw/epa.....

Again, why is that EPA's fault? VW must make the cars legal in the US. It's their responsibility.

Besides, as I've posted before, I doubt it will be your choice to choose not to do it- being that holding your registration until you have the work done is quite easy. You have to remember that the car isn't actually legal for sale in the US.

JohnRW1621 wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Since you are a "man in the know" do you think it is possible that VW is just a company who got caught? Is it possible that this type of thing is more common than currently revealed?

No, I don't- I think they cheated just to sell the cars in the US.

All of us test each others cars, and all of us tear each others cars apart to see how we all do it. We did work on car diesels for years, but could not put an economical package together. I know Honda said they would quite a while ago (much like VW), and Mazda says they are trying now.

For the most part- making gas cars clean is very, very well known these days. So I don't really suspect anyone else's gas cars. Heck, I see the trend now how to make it cheaper, to put the squeeze on companies that don't do it well.

As for diesels- seeing what BMW and Mercedes put on their cars here- I don't doubt them, either. The current state of the art is reasonably well known too- it's just expensive. One that large trucks and high end cars can afford to do. And both do it that way.

The people I work with all are stunned that VW would do this. Can't really fathom cheating anymore- the penalties for stretching the rules just past the limit have been pretty harsh. This is so far beyond that, it's hard to figure it out.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Mea culpa, Mea culpa. I was repeating something I had been told from what I thought was a credible source without actually independently fact checking.

It's the Internet. It happens!

alfadriver wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: The ambulance chasers are already out in full force..... I already have a few advertisements for them. Sad it looks like I'm being forced into a fix that may or may not work all that well in a vehicle that will end up with diminished value in the end.... Piss on you EPA. If I have to keep it, dpf delete and tune upcoming.

Why? Why is it their fault that VW cheated and polluted? You should say piss on VW- they are the ones who deceived you that the car was legal to sell in the US. edit- full disclosure- all of you know that my profession mostly about cars meeting the air quality requirements. But I do know many people at the EPA here in Ann Arbor. They are good people- a few have started some Challenge projects, other than our old on. They are just trying to keep this place a bearable place to live- health wise.

Completely agree with you Alfa, not sure why people hate on the EPA. Spend some time in China or parts of Mexico and let us know how that "screw teh EPA" thing is working for you

In reply to alfadriver:

And the EPA is faultless in the whole deal since they do nothing but "rubberstamp" the OEM's findings/testing? Please spare me the drivle. I know once the fix is out and how you have to do or live with this or that, I'm going to be jammed with a craptastic automobile with less perceived value. I'm out.

In reply to Ranger50:

I'm not sure if the EPA is always good, sometimes bad or a mix. All I know is that Ranger50 is PISSED. And with very good reason and that shows in his writing.

If I were an owner, there's no telling how pissed I'd be for being duped into paying $20-30,000 for one of these cars no matter what the fix may be.

How soon until a tech-savvy group of VW's victims crashes their website or otherwise sabotages the company?