Kreb wrote: I don't understand the Hippie low-blows. VW TDIs appeal to lots of people. Let's set aside the old, stupid stereotypes for a moment, shall we?
There's nothing to understand, it's just a couple guys having a little fun. Plus, hippies are capable of defending themselves 
Kreb wrote: I don't understand the Hippie low-blows. VW TDIs appeal to lots of people. Let's set aside the old, stupid stereotypes for a moment, shall we?
It was tongue in cheek, meant as a joke. I don't understand why people go out of their way to be offended. Let's stop taking everything so literal, shall we?
Edit; Actually, hippies was a typo, I meant to type hipsters. But it's whatever.
Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock wrote:Kreb wrote: I don't understand the Hippie low-blows. VW TDIs appeal to lots of people. Let's set aside the old, stupid stereotypes for a moment, shall we?It was tongue in cheek, meant as a joke. I don't understand why people go out of their way to be offended. Let's stop taking everything so literal, shall we? Edit; Actually, hippies was a typo, I meant to type hipsters. But it's whatever.
Are you sure you didn't mean "Hamsters"?
VW "clean diesel" Jetta ad just ran on TV. Guess they haven't pulled them all (yet).
VW has their scapegoat. The CEO has called for an independent investigation.
During football today there were an awful lot of Audi "Truth in Engineering" commercials.
Made me wonder if Audi uses any of those same engines in the A3 or A4, and if they might have the same problems.
TRoglodyte wrote: VW has their scapegoat. The CEO has called for an independent investigation.
The CEO also quietly leaked his name as "Wolfgang Kraus," an entry-level computer programmer. An evil one. 
Leaked the name under what context? Being the "guy" responsible for the software boo boo? If so, bs. I work in the machine tool industry, and some of our customers machine parts for VW. Once in a while we see ways to make certain parts either better or make them lower cost with simple design changes. Nothing that would affect the function of the part, but would make it easier to machine, hold, etc. Some end user companies are very willing to incorporate such design changes with minimal delay. Others (VW included) seemingly never will. It is too bearucratic if a process, as it has been explained back to us "manufacturing folks". I sort of think they have corporate processes in place for even minor decisions. Cannot fathom the possibility that any one person could concoct a scheme of this magnitude.
Audi does indeed use the offending mill in the A3
einy wrote: Leaked the name under what context? Being the "guy" responsible for the software boo boo? If so, bs. I work in the machine tool industry, and some of our customers machine parts for VW. Once in a while we see ways to make certain parts either better or make them lower cost with simple design changes. Nothing that would affect the function of the part, but would make it easier to machine, hold, etc. Some end user companies are very willing to incorporate such design changes with minimal delay. Others (VW included) seemingly never will. It is too bearucratic if a process, as it has been explained back to us "manufacturing folks". I sort of think they have corporate processes in place for even minor decisions. Cannot fathom the possibility that any one person could concoct a scheme of this magnitude.
I was being sarcastic/facetious....as in the CEO leaked some low-level fall guy who they can blame, since that's what usually happens in the world. I just made up the name and the position.
irish44j wrote: During football today there were an awful lot of Audi "Truth in Engineering" commercials. Made me wonder if Audi uses any of those same engines in the A3 or A4, and if they might have the same problems.
They engineered the cars to truthfully pass the certification test.
Practically all cars go over the limits when pushed beyond the scope of the test. WOT enrichment makes the cats go to sleep, after all! So what we are dealing with here is an interesting question - is the emissions test cycle supposed to be a bar they have to pass, or is it considered to be proof that the engines are always clean? Because if it is the first, then VW did no wrong, they merely did an ingenious yet in hindsight obvious bit of tuning. If it is the second, then everybody is also guilty of the same thing.
Or, as Captain Jack Sparrow so eloquently put it: "Ah-ha! So, we've established my proposal as sound in principle. Now, we're just haggling over price!"
A bit off-topic so don't get to cranky but doesn't it sound like a great time to get a smoking deal on a new GTD?
In reply to 84FSP:
Apart from VW's continued failure to send the GTD to the USA, VW apparently just told dealers to stop sales on 2015s, and the EPA isn't issuing certifications for 2016s, so TDIs can't be sold anyhow...
Pardon the Jaloplink: http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-tells-dealers-to-halt-sales-of-new-tdi-cars-1731923302
Another detail...
"VW issued a recall in December for nearly 500,000 vehicles that was supposed to address the emissions — but EPA said it didn’t work."
From http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/foreign/2015/09/19/vw-us-dealers-halt-sales-diesel-cars/72488232/
So... The EPA has known for how long?
Well. The media has certainly grabbed hold of the sensational aspect of this.
"Oh no! 40x the hazardous pollution! We're going to die of poison because of the Volkswagens!"
I saw more old Saturns today than I did new TDIs. We all know what old Saturns like to spew out their poo shoots.
84FSP wrote: A bit off-topic so don't get to cranky but doesn't it sound like a great time to get a smoking deal on a new GTD?
I wish it was sold here. I was following one on the Autobahn last week, it was cruising at 140mph with ease.
Knurled wrote:irish44j wrote: During football today there were an awful lot of Audi "Truth in Engineering" commercials. Made me wonder if Audi uses any of those same engines in the A3 or A4, and if they might have the same problems.They engineered the cars to truthfully pass the certification test. Practically all cars go over the limits when pushed beyond the scope of the test. WOT enrichment makes the cats go to sleep, after all! So what we are dealing with here is an interesting question - is the emissions test cycle supposed to be a bar they have to pass, or is it considered to be proof that the engines are always clean? Because if it is the first, then VW did no wrong, they merely did an ingenious yet in hindsight obvious bit of tuning. If it is the second, then everybody is also guilty of the same thing. Or, as *Captain* Jack Sparrow so eloquently put it: "Ah-ha! So, we've established my proposal as sound in principle. Now, we're just haggling over price!"
that is a good question.
Knurled wrote: Practically all cars go over the limits when pushed beyond the scope of the test. WOT enrichment makes the cats go to sleep, after all! So what we are dealing with here is an interesting question - is the emissions test cycle supposed to be a bar they have to pass, or is it considered to be proof that the engines are always clean? Because if it is the first, then VW did no wrong, they merely did an ingenious yet in hindsight obvious bit of tuning. If it is the second, then everybody is also guilty of the same thing.
That's a really good point, but I think the division between "does it pass under test conditions?" and "is it always clean?" misses the case of "would it pass the test conditions while being driven out in the world?" However unrealistic the EPA cycles are, that's some part of the intent, right? And I'm not necessarily talking about whether VW's lawyers can make that case, though that is a separate and interesting question.
I think it is highly pertinent that these cars won't even try for the standards and miss out in the real world.
Ouch. News reports that VW stock price has taken a 20% hit on the European Exchange. I imagine there are fortunes being made and lost right now. Whenever there is upheaval like this the real winners are the ones who can surf the market the best.
yep … still kicking myself in the ass for NOT buying Ford when it was at <$5 a share
Sucks for "the people". The real victims are the employees of the upper managements screwups.
Everybody keeps talking about "40x the standard!", but nobody is reporting what the standard is. I'd like to know what the standards for diesel pollution are now vs., say, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and 30 years ago.
Then I'd know whether to judge VW as an evil corporation putting profits above public health, or a rational actor trying to make and sell cars in spite of a ridiculously stringent standard imposed by people for whom environmentalism is a religion.
ebonyandivory wrote: Sucks for "the people". The real victims are the employees of the upper managements screwups.
They bought Volkswagens, they knew they would be in for some kind of trouble.
KyAllroad wrote: Ouch. News reports that VW stock price has taken a 20% hit on the European Exchange. I imagine there are fortunes being made and lost right now. Whenever there is upheaval like this the real winners are the ones who can surf the market the best.
How did the price take that long to drop? You'd think the HFT bots would've gobbled up the difference within a second of the first news announcements.
Anyway, there are rumors out there now that the rest of the industry may be cheating too, but not nearly as blatantly as VW. The urea injection systems on a lot of modern diesels are mapped in a way that just happens to reduce pollution most heavily in testing...
In reply to bluebarchetta:
I really tend to agree with this. However, if Mazda et al was trying like hell to keep up "legally", VW was cheating THEM more than US.
It's like the whole PED thing. I've competed in strength sports. If I got beaten by a guy who was juiced and breaking the law as well as the rules of the competition while I was playing by the rules, I'd be pissed!
It's VW's competitors that should have the biggest gripe here imo.
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