VW may not be Exxon but...

bluebarchetta wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Either way, this is going to hurt Joe Public more than anyone else. Besides the current owners who are going to get shafted, someone somewhere is also going to figure how to line their pockets by throwing Tax dollars at the problem under the guise of moral outrage and protecting us from such thins. Probably have to take your belts and shoes off at car dealers in the near future.

Crap, you're right. This could be the perfect impetus for instituting California-style emissions testing nationwide - you know, for the children.

I sure hope not. I like the "drive whatever you want because we don't care" approach in Michigan.

BlueInGreen44 wrote:

bluebarchetta wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Either way, this is going to hurt Joe Public more than anyone else. Besides the current owners who are going to get shafted, someone somewhere is also going to figure how to line their pockets by throwing Tax dollars at the problem under the guise of moral outrage and protecting us from such thins. Probably have to take your belts and shoes off at car dealers in the near future.

Crap, you're right. This could be the perfect impetus for instituting California-style emissions testing nationwide - you know, for the children.

I sure hope not. I like the "drive whatever you want because we don't care" approach in Michigan.

This picture sums up the governments approach to helping the public deal with crisis. Note that they are not even qualified for what they are doing.

In reply to Harvey:

Still an opportunity for money to be made.

I understand the "you broke the law" part of this but there's a helluva lot of old Powerstrokes and Cummins(es) around here. Nevermind how many Diesel landscaping trucks, work vans and bigger trucks.

I've feel like I've driven behind most of them.

How many Golfs does it take to equal just one high-mileage Powerstroke?

"Yet the whole probe was kicked off by a small advocacy group with experience in testing whether diesel cars were meeting their legal obligations — and those tests suggest VW isn’t alone, something U.S. regulators will now pursue."

ebonyandivory wrote: I understand the "you broke the law" part of this but there's a helluva lot of old Powerstrokes and Cummins(es) around here. Nevermind how many Diesel landscaping trucks, work vans and bigger trucks. I've feel like I've driven behind most of them. How many Golfs does it take to equal just one high-mileage Powerstroke?

Yeah this isn't a low-hanging fruit pollution-wise. There are big ships floating around right now that each release as much air pollution as 50 million average cars.

Consider however that these new VWs will be on the road a lot further into the future than those old diesel trucks, and that they were available with green car subsidies in many places. Look at it as a massive false advertising and fraud case if nothing else.

In reply to ebonyandivory: Stop using common sense, if VW was savy on US politics, they would have classed this car in the SUV category so they could have avoided any rules. Then they could have easily called it the Oxymoron (it is a SUV but is efficient)

bluebarchetta wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Either way, this is going to hurt Joe Public more than anyone else. Besides the current owners who are going to get shafted, someone somewhere is also going to figure how to line their pockets by throwing Tax dollars at the problem under the guise of moral outrage and protecting us from such thins. Probably have to take your belts and shoes off at car dealers in the near future.

Crap, you're right. This could be the perfect impetus for instituting California-style emissions testing nationwide - you know, for the children. On a lighter note, I love belonging to a forum where not just one, but two other posters' first thought on Dieselgate was "Cool - now I can get a cheap TDI engine for my project car!"

But you won't. Just like the Cash 4 Clunkers, they will be crushed.

I'm tempted to buy some stock now... Not too much, but maybe throw a grand at it?

GameboyRMH said:

"Consider however that these new VWs will be on the road a lot further into the future"

I'm not so sure any VAG product has a long future

mtn wrote: I'm tempted to buy some stock now... Not too much, but maybe throw a grand at it?

I think it's got a lot more drop to go as the details come out. They've already set aside over 7 billion to resolve the issue (with the likelihood of increasing that amount), and that doesn't count litigation or PR costs. All of that will be written down in the 3rd quarter. Add to that the lack of new sales from stop sales/lack of certification for new models/bad publicity, and I expect the stock to fall once 3rd quarter numbers are released. Just my $.02

If I wasn't dedicated to playing the marketwatch game in long-term mode, I would've shorted VW stock as soon as possible. I think you could still make some now though, if you play your cards right.

somewhat surprising to see under the highlights and efficiency tab the clean diesel TDI still being promoted

In reply to STM317:

I agree. I see that stock price continuing to drop.

I think the authorities are over-reacting to all this. Hey...how bad can the stuff really be?

I would definitely NOT be happy if they push the Cali-level testing across the whole country, I rather enjoy not having to worry about emissions testing here in KY. Of course, 2 of my 3 cars are 30+ years old and would likely be exempted anyway, but still...

Will definitely be interesting to see what happens as the scope of the investigation of this expands. I honestly didn't know (since it's been a decade since I've had to have a care tested...) that these days the tests were simply done through what the on-board computer was reporting. Frankly it's really hard to believe that there isn't more cheating going on than just this.

What amazes me is the number of people who had to have known that this was in place; I mean, they had to test for it to work.

Where do you even start and finish firing people?

Here is an interesting question.....TDI supply is effectively capped at what's out there now. You're going to loose the demand from the green people and also those quick to jump the gun (as well as a blip in supply).

In the future....will this mean TDI cars will hold their value MORE? The people that want a torquey, efficient, fun to drive car are still going to buy these.

Also.....can we merge both VW/ TDI threads?

I know I am having way too much fun with this, but would it not be just awesome if Homeland Security launched the full armed invasion against all the TDI owners like they did with the Land Rovers last year?

Yeah, I do know that they had to give them back, but it WAS fun for Homersecurity while it lasted.

In reply to Enyar:

Maybe but what if these cars are rendered undrivable by the EPA?

Or more likely IMO is like we have to do up here in MA when selling a house: you cannot sell your home unless the sewerage passes strict guidelines (almost none of the existing ones can) unless you pay out the wazoo to have a new system put in first.

Imagine not being able to sell your V-Dub Diesel unless you pay ohhhh I don't know $3,000? $5,000? to have it put right?

(And if these cars all need retrofits to pass emissions testing and they have to be performed at dealerships, can you imagine the wait-time the owners are gonna have?)

Does anyone know if the "fix" might be tuning or if hard-parts are going to need to be replaced?

ebonyandivory wrote: In reply to Enyar: Maybe but what if these cars are rendered undrivable by the EPA? Or more likely IMO is like we have to do up here in MA when selling a house: you cannot sell your home unless the sewerage passes strict guidelines (almost none of the existing ones can) unless you pay out the wazoo to have a new system put in first. Imagine not being able to sell your V-Dub Diesel unless you pay ohhhh I don't know $3,000? $5,000? to have it put right?

I can't see that flying- I would expect they'd have to do a recall where the owners could get the cars 'fixed' for free so they could be driven and registered (at VW's complete expense). VW should certainly be on the hook for it since it was their actions that led to this (which included wholesale deception in the advertising that brought in the buyers...).

In reply to Ashyukun:

Please see above post. I edited in something about how loooong those recalls will take.

ebonyandivory wrote: In reply to Ashyukun: Please see above post. I edited in something about how loooong those recalls will take.

Well, seeing as how the dealerships can't sell NEW cars at the moment, maybe they'll have more time for the recalls.

Ashyukun wrote:

ebonyandivory wrote: In reply to Ashyukun: Please see above post. I edited in something about how loooong those recalls will take.

Well, seeing as how the dealerships can't sell NEW cars at the moment, maybe they'll have more time for the recalls.

Nah, they're still overloaded fixing the prior engineering berkeley ups.

ebonyandivory wrote: Does anyone know if the "fix" might be tuning or if hard-parts are going to need to be replaced?

Nearly every other diesel sold that meets tier 2 regulations uses SCR tech. For the cars that had SCR already (some Passats supposedly had SCR), I'd guess a calibration change can probably fix the issue. If they are required to retrofit vehicles, all of the vehicles included in the recall that didn't have SCR new, will have to have it added. Adding the SCR components will take some space though, so it will be interesting to see how it could be packaged. A loss of trunk or interior space may be required. Not to mention the time to engineer it properly, recertify it, and cost of the new hardware.