So I can't shake my desire for an S3 (I know the Golf R has the same drivetrain, but the looks don't do anything for me, even being cheaper).
Does anyone know if they have solved the tuning issues yet? When I looked around at them in the spring, all the tuning places said cars made after Feb/Mar 2015 couldn't be tuned, period.
I find it hard to believe the tuners haven't been able to crack the ECUs.
Any ideas? I know they are plenty quick stock, but..........
The RS3 was confirmed for the US market earlier this week. 400hp should solve the problem.
captdownshift wrote: The RS3 was confirmed for the US market earlier this week. 400hp should solve the problem.
It's likely to be another $10-12k more than the S3. The S3 is already stretching what I can justify.
I'd need my old salary back for the RS3. But trust me, I'd love it. I love the way the 5 cylinders sound.
z31maniac wrote: I find it hard to believe the tuners haven't been able to crack the ECUs.
I don't know specifics either, but I'd be inclined to fall in line with you here.
They've made the Golf R's FLY with tunes. It's basically the same drivetrain/chassis with the MQB platform at least looking at APR's website, it seems they have tunes ready to go.
After the TDI debacle, it wouldn't surprise me if VAG gets extra-stingy about releasing the ECU codes.
I'm sure the S3 is nice, but I only see a sedan version now and only available with the DSG. Two big negatives for me.
Nice! Looks like hey have cracked the ECU.
Impressive gains. I wonder how the DSG unit handles it. I wouldn't want to go crazy, just a tune for some extra grunt.
Looks like just the 91 tune (no other mods) picks up 87tq and 67hp over stock.
Ian F wrote: I'm sure the S3 is nice, but I only see a sedan version now and only available with the DSG. Two big negatives for me.
Precisely why I do want it. I love the DCT style transmissions. Racey as hell when you want, comfy auto when commuting. And a tad more practical.
I realize I'm not going to have the cash in the foreseeable future to tacke the BRZ to the track and I don't necessarily want to risk it either.
I'd like to just have a nice, fast, DD that I don't hate driving.
I guess... I still don't trust them, longevity-wise.
Ian F wrote: I guess... I still don't trust them, longevity-wise.
I trust them less in the corporate sense. They are indeed the world's largest auto maker, but they have a ton of lawsuits and a poor internal corporate structure.
e85 will wake the motor up even more. A more complicated tune and requires a fuel sensor, but it should take it safely to 400HP.
Ian F wrote: I guess... I still don't trust them, longevity-wise.
They have been out since 06 though and they aren't failing left and right. The way people complain about VAG products it would be front page news!
Edit: I'm talking about the Trans, it is still a VAG product
The major complaint I hear about the DSG is the service interval for the fluid and how aggravating the fluid is to change. I really think I want a Golf, too. I don't know if I can afford a TypeR, though.
Brett_Murphy wrote: The major complaint I hear about the DSG is the service interval for the fluid and how aggravating the fluid is to change. I really think I want a Golf, too. I don't know if I can afford a TypeR, though.
I don't think 40k is unreasonable. Especially when I typically stick to 20k intervals in my own "performance" cars.
Unitronic, apr, and revo have tunes. The dct transmissions hold up pretty well, but the engines can have some lean misfire issues. The awd system is not the proper Quattro that the s4 has.
pushrod36 wrote: The awd system is not the proper Quattro that the s4 has.
Oh, please tell me more about the differences between the two.
I won't pretend I know about either.
In reply to z31maniac:
It uses the Haldex system that came out in the TT originally. From what I understand it's a FWD bias system that will kick in the rear wheels when necessary vs the "true" Quattro that is a full time AWD system.
I imagine it would only be noticeable when driving on track at the limit.
NEALSMO wrote: In reply to z31maniac: It uses the Haldex system that came out in the TT originally. From what I understand it's a FWD bias system that will kick in the rear wheels when necessary vs the "true" Quattro that is a full time AWD system.
This.
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/RDNCHX-XtpE
The Haldex system has gotten a lot better at predicting when you'll need AWD.
You can also get a different Haldex control box that'll shift more of the bias to the rear wheels.
I'd probably go for the Golf R because I'd rather have a manual transmission, a hatchback is far more utilitarian and it's a TON cheaper than the S3 for basically the same car...
docwyte wrote: You can also get a different Haldex control box that'll shift more of the bias to the rear wheels.
I was going to bring this up as well.
Basically today anything is tuneable. Most guys rave about the DSG tunes, so you'll want a tune for the trans. Then you have the Haldex controller which lets you draw up bias at a turn of a dial, and makes for silly playing in inclimate weather. Lastly, the power on tap vastly increases with a tune.
Kind of funny how much you can improve a modern turbo vehicle without so much as turning a wrench.
Ian F wrote: I guess... I still don't trust them, longevity-wise.
The VW ones seem to be free of the issues that the other companies have.
Biggest downside for me is no torque converter. What use is a turbo engine with no torque converter?
NEALSMO wrote: In reply to z31maniac: It uses the Haldex system that came out in the TT originally. From what I understand it's a FWD bias system that will kick in the rear wheels when necessary vs the "true" Quattro that is a full time AWD system. I imagine it would only be noticeable when driving on track at the limit.
It's just Audi's name for all wheel drive. The "true" Quattro setup is all open diffs with manual locks, so you can have bad handling and atrocious handling.
docwyte wrote: You can also get a different Haldex control box that'll shift more of the bias to the rear wheels. I'd probably go for the Golf R because I'd rather have a manual transmission, a hatchback is far more utilitarian and it's a TON cheaper than the S3 for basically the same car...
Golf R starts at $39k, Audi S3 starts at $42k.
I wouldn't call that a ton cheaper. Also, the VW is ugly and I already stated I wasn't interested in it.
Have you actually driven an S3? It's like drinking warm milk.
z31maniac wrote:docwyte wrote: You can also get a different Haldex control box that'll shift more of the bias to the rear wheels. I'd probably go for the Golf R because I'd rather have a manual transmission, a hatchback is far more utilitarian and it's a TON cheaper than the S3 for basically the same car...Golf R starts at $39k, Audi S3 starts at $42k. I wouldn't call that a ton cheaper. Also, the VW is ugly and I already stated I wasn't interested in it.
I just went onto VW's website and realized that there was a pretty drastic increase in MSRP for the 2017 models! They really do start at $39k now ($40,195 with destination)... Looks like DCC/Navi are now standard. Even compared to last year's DCC/Navi model, it looks like MSRP went up by $1480 and they're being shown with the fancier looking Pretoria wheels.
For comparison, it looks like the S3 starts at $42,900, but at my local dealerships, I don't see one listed for less than $46k.
When I bought my base 2016 Golf R manual earlier this year, the MSRP on it was $36,790, and I ended up getting it for $35,500 with some negotiation. At that time, that was a substantial price gap between the Golf R & the S3.
I've never driven the S3, but I actually purchased an MQB based 2015 A3 2.0T AWD right after they were released. This isn't a fair comparison, as the A3 doesn't have the same level of performance as the S3... but with that said, aside from exterior aesthetics, I prefer the Golf R in pretty much every way. Without comparing performance, here's a short list of things I prefer about the VW and why I didn't even look at the S3 (price notwithstanding):
-Interior space. I'm a bigger guy (6'2" 210 lbs) and the lower roof-line in the A3 was very close to the top of my head. No such problem in the VW. The center console is also wider in the A3, taking up more leg room, and putting pressure on my right knee while driving.
-Back seat is bigger in the Golf. I have 2 young kids (8 & 6), so it's not a problem now, but stuffing an adult back there is a no-go, especially with the lack of rear head room. No such issues in the VW.
-Interior layout. Audi makes beautiful interiors, but I actually prefer the layout and controls of the VW and like not having a computer screen/tablet that pops out of the dashboard.
-Seats. I've sat in the Audi S3 seats and I prefer the VW's. I think they're both more comfortable and more supportive.
-Hatchback. My dog (border collie) fits in the trunk of my VW. So does the lawn mower I bought from Lowes not too long ago (with seats folded down of course). Nuff said. A3/S3's trunk is tiny by comparison.
-VW comes will all the features I wanted as standard, whereas Audi nickle and dimes the E36 M3 out of their customers. They charge you $400 just to paint your OEM brake calipers red, haha!
-The Audi's steering was incredibly numb by comparison. Both have electric powered racks, and neither will compare to a good old fashioned hydraulic setup, but the VW's is better weighted and offers more feedback. Audi by comparison was overly light/overboosted, I didn't get any feedback from the front tires. Maybe the S3 is better? Although some of the reviews I've read have said the same thing when comparing the S3 to the VW- the Golf R has better steering weight/feel.
-Manual transmission. In my short time owning the Audi, it was my first DSG transmission. It was also my last DSG transmission. I found out something important about myself: I prefer shifting my own gears. I could start an entire thread about the things I didn't like about the DSG, but I'll leave it at that.
If you don't like the way the VW looks, there's really nothing else left the say. The Audi is definitely a prettier car, but the A3/S3's sportier looking design comes at a substantial cost- extra cash, interior space, ergonomics and overall practicality. Between the 2 MQB based cars, I really think the VW is the better setup. Just my $.02 YMMV
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