We don't have enough of these already. Best non Miata DD to autoX under 12k.

Seeing some of the other threads pop up recently made start thinking about this, however one is RWD only and the other ended in a Miata anyways. I currently drive an F250 with a V10 and am getting fed up with it's 7 MPG. I bought the truck to tow a car and use as a camper, but no longer have said project, and I find myself avoiding using the truck because it just costs too much to drive. Add to that SO and I are trying to save for a house, I think it's time to get something else. I've had an NA with the 1.6 in the past and really enjoyed it. The slowness didn't bother me, and it was fun to drive around town. However, I didn't love it for long trips, it was noisy, hot, and I really don't like convertibles. 

I have a soft budget of 7,000 but am willing to go up to 12,000 for the right car. Also looking at under 10 years old and under 100,000 miles, though those are negotiable as well. I drive 5,000 miles a year with most of that being in town driving but probably do one 3-4 hour trip a month. I'd like it to have a decent interior with bluetooth and some comforts as well. I live in the northern midwest, so snow is a real issue to think about. I also don't really enjoy working on my DD, some reliability is a huge thing for me.

So far it seems there are a few that get mentioned every time, in no particular order,

-Fiesta ST
-Focus ST
-VW Golf/Jetta GTI
-500 Abarth
-2.5 Mazda 3
-2.4 Kia Forte
-BMW 128
-Mid 00's Accord
-8th Gen civic
-BRZ

As of now, it seems people REALLY like the Fiest ST, and is probably my choice should I go above 7,000. However if i'm going to try and stay under it'd probably be the M3. I'm just nervous if I go with a cheaper option, or a non sport version i'm going to be dissapointed in power. I'm curious to see if anyone has a comparison on some of these cars. I know I should go test drive some, but finding any around me is difficult, and in the end i'm probably going to have to do a fly n drive. Thanks for the help!
 

ok you have the list.. Go drive them and see what one you like..  Beyond that it's just a mental exercise in futility.

Other people like hte Fiesta ST.. maybe you'll hate it if you drive one.

PRHT NC.

I had to go there. 

I picked up a FiST last summer. I've been a RWD die hard. Shortly before I owned a RX-8, 6th gen Camaro SS, still own a NA race car. I benchmarked against current model FRS, BRZ, GTI, Mustang, Veloster Turbo R, WRX, 370Z, ND and I'm probably forgetting a couple of others. The ND is my favorite of the bunch. The FiST was definitely my second in the group I was considering to buy and probably second-ish in the overall group mentioned above.

The nimbleness and responsiveness of the FiST is what makes it really good. The "torque vectoring" brake based system give its a bit of RWD-esk behavior under power. I suspect you can get one near your $7k preferred range. Mine is a '16 and I paid around the top end of your range to get a cream puff with ~12k miles.

I live in the "northern mid-west" as well, but other side of the boarder. It's fine in the snow. Snow tires always reduce fun, maybe I'm being crusty, but I find the snow tires change the feel/nimbleness of the car in a way which bugs me more than usual. The fwd and lack of a proper LSD bother me a bit more in lower grip conditions. In higher grip conditions, it's a minor drawback.

Do you want to be competitive in AutoX, or just have fun?

This is GRM, so I'm going to ignore a few of your criteria and suggest an off the wall option. As a future homeowner, a truck can come in handy. A Ranger with the 2.3L Duratec/5spd combo is basically the NC Miata of trucks (The same engine platform even). Mine got 30mpg on my mostly highway commute. They're well within your preferred budget. They're super basic, so not much to go wrong, and parts are cheap and easy to get if something does go amiss. They can be lowered relatively easily. They can fit tons of tire. The additional ground clearance over a small car might work better with heavy snowfall too. It would be eligible for whatever street/modified class it falls into as well as CAM (might require a little extra weight), so you'd have some options for Auto X.

I know it's not going to compare to the features or performance of the cars on your list, but I think it could be much more practical for your situation, for less money. And you'll notice a lot of Ford truck DNA carries over from your F250, so it might feel pretty comfortable pretty fast.

You mentioned autocross in the title but not in the body anywhere, how much of a factor is that? I do really really like my fiesta ST as a DD, but if I was in a position where my DD needed to also serve primary autocross duty on a regular basis I'd be looking elsewhere in a hurry. As much as I'm not really a fan f them, of the things on your list I'd say the BRZ is your best bet. I'd say the nicest boxster you can get within budget, but convertible and questionable reliability don't fit your desires. You can squeeze a 996 into that budget, but it would almost certainly be a basket case that would need a lot of maintenance. GTI could also be a decent choice, I'm not sure what the used market on them is like but I'd be afraid that they hold their value well enough that one in your price range again wouldn't be one you'd actually want to own.

In reply to Snrub :

I appreciate the input. Though i'm curious where you found yours, because the ones i'm finding are still in the 12-14 range.

In reply to STM317 :

Just looking to have fun in AutoX. I'm definatly not opposed to this idea. It definitely seems like a fun option. Luckily if I get rid of my pickup, i'll still have access to a full size truck, which is why i'm primarily looking at small cars, but i'll definitely keep the Ranger in mind!

In reply to dps214 :

Just looking to have fun in AutoX. I looked into the brz's, and I would really like to enjoy them, but it just seems like the lack of torque during DD is a big complaint. I'll still test drive one and decide for myself though. I really like the idea of the VW, i'm just nervious about the cost of upkeep and repairs, especially with their history.

The little bit of street driving I've done in a FRS, I remember it not being that noticeable. Though at that point in time I think I was still driving a beater first gen focus so that's a pretty low bar. For autocross it's not great, but a tune and maybe some exhaust parts fixes the torque dip problem IIRC. I honestly don't really like them myself, but they're getting cheap enough that they're getting harder and harder to ignore and it seems to be one of the few things that fits all of your desires.

NBraun said:

In reply to Snrub :

I appreciate the input. Though i'm curious where you found yours, because the ones i'm finding are still in the 12-14 range.

I live just north of the boarder and I did a fly and drive, but I don't think the deal was exceptional, just decent. Here's one for $8k, 2 hours from buffalo with 65k miles. Not sure if it's worth it to look at importing. https://www.autotrader.ca/ico/ford/fiesta/kitchener/ontario/19_11385620_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=1_15_17&pc=N5V%202V7&sprx=1000

Looking at autotrader.com it does look like you'd might need to spend more like $10-11k to get a decent one. Normally prices are very close, I'm surprised they're a bit more down there.

Dude, I am so proud of you for already listing my easy button. I have nothing more to add here. 

I'm actually undertaking a similar search for my next car with parameters that aren't too different to yours. I really like the 8th Gen SIs, and if you can find either of the STs in reasonable condition within that price range, they are probably worth a look too. Have not driven a GTI/GLI so would also be interested in some input there.

Have you looked at G35/G37? The former will break your 10 year rule, but I owned an early G35 manual sedan, and it always did me right. You'll feel the weight more than you will with the other cars you listed, but I found the driving experience to be pretty similar to an E46. They're really comfy, and I think with some work you could have fun at autoX. 

Anyway, great luck with your search, and please let us know what you end up going with and if you end up driving any of the cars you listed. Cheers

Good thread, I've been looking for something similar.

To me, a dual purpose fun daily/auto-x car has to be RWD, as the additional challenge of balancing the car on throttle is so rewarding.

I have been looking at RX-8s and 3-series BMWs. With the RX-8 you get practical, relatively contemporary feeling daily driver with one of the best chassis ever underneath. The rotary engine is a bit of a wildcard, but I personally love its character enough to forgive the reliability and fuel economy drawbacks. I'm actually curious to hear other GRM'ers experience with it, as I'm seriously considering one, hopefully an enthusiast-owned one with all the weak points already addressed. I even think they have aged surprisingly well.

Hard to go wrong with a well-sorted E46 or E90, but E46s with all the weak points addressed are pretty pricey and E90s are somewhat heavy with their own issues.

I appreciate the input everyone. I would really love to have RWD, it would have to be the perfect car, I just prefer driving FWD in the wintertime. Add to that BMW's can be costly has me a little nervous about DDing one.

I've found a couple 8th gen civics for 5-6000 which seem to be decent options that i'm going to check out hopefully soon, though.

The Fords, Mazda’s and Kia Hyundai are all excellent options. It’ll come down to which one you enjoy driving the most that fits your budget. 

I wouldn’t touch any of the German cars because of the reliability issues.  You’ll have enough stuff to worry about with the new house. 

Informative posts

Thanks

BMW 128s are very fun but suffer similar fates as many a S13/Silvia; huge expectations drive up prices, and racers drive up prices on good ones even more. Be ready to pay.

Buick Reatta. 

I'll see myself out. 

Just curious, do you have winter RWD experience with a evenly balanced car with a LSD on winter tires? I've done it for many winters and definitely wouldn't rule them out.

The RX-8 is a really good car in many ways. The driving dynamics are still spot on, feel, brakes, etc. It becomes a tougher car to recommend as time goes by. Up here many of them have rusted away. Many others seem to have tired engines. It's a roll of the dice. I sold mine a bit over a year ago. I had a fresher engine, but I was getting tired of rust repairs and it didn't have terrible reliability, but I was tired of the maintenance and wanted something newer. It's also the benefit of hindsight. I miss owning a good looking car too, but there are just fewer options like that available today. I feel like I made a good financial decision, after making a terrible one in between the RX-8 and FiST. 

Well still on the lookout.

In true GRM fashion however, my parameters seemed to have opened up. A buddy of mine is trying to talk me into a C5 corvette. I realize this doesn't really fit the original question, but I didn't know they were getting so affordable. It seems to click the boxes, good mileage, reliable, in the budget, sporty. The winter thing I suppose I can make work. My only issue is a lot of road trips are my fiance and myself, as well as our medium sized dog. I have a feeling there just won't be enough room for the three of us.

Thoughts? Go ahead and talk me out of this!

NBraun said:

So far it seems there are a few that get mentioned every time, in no particular order,

-Fiesta ST

No particular order...except the FiST was first. That's your Freudian brain telling you that you already know what you want! The FiST is going to be cheaper than anything else on that list to operate and modify, its the most fun to drive daily, the most competitive in class (if you stay in HS), it is practical, not bad for daily use and long trips (just put some Koni yellows on it) and it gets decent mileage. They can be found in good nick for under $12K and I have seen them go for under $10.

The GTI is the slightly nicer version of the FiST for slightly more money. If I sat in traffic a lot, I'd go for one with the DSG. Can you get a good, reliable one for your money? VW did try to ruin the environment and lied about it, but they also make the GT3 and GT2 so there's that.

 If I had $7k to spend it would be a Civic Si for me. Even the 4-door can give the FiST a run for it's money in the tight twisties, and they are as reliable as a Honda.I mean anvil. Get one in grey and you'll be all respectable too.

Look, neighbors, I am a respectable accountant. Except on the weekends!

Why is a Mini Copper S not listed here?

In reply to pinchvalve :

The civic SI's are pretty high up on the list for me currently. Unless I find a really good deal on a fiesta I  don't think it's in the running anymore. Just really not enthused dealing the the DI maintenance. 

Make whatever decision is best for you, but how many people are really needing to do DI maintenance? There's a 19 page thread on fiestastforum about the possibility of value carbon problems, but there are few to no actual issues reported.