Should you race hard against your own teammate?
If any of you saw the Turkish Grand Prix this morning, you saw Sebastian Vettel (P2) try to overtake his teammate Mark Weber (P1) near the end of the race. He ended up spinning out, and relagating his teammate to P3, possibly killing Red Bull's chance for a championship.
What say thee?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRw5EuSAl6M
Some stupid driving going on there.
And of course, after Button and Hamilton take on P1 and P2 they touched wheels as well!
This is turning out to be a good year though. Those 4 drivers are really close in speed with different enough mannerisms to really keep it interesting.
I wish Ferrari and Mercedes would step up a couple places to make it an 8 way fight....well, 7 way, Massa doesn't seem to have "it".
It made an otherwise boring race into a pretty exciting finish, and it shows that Red Bull may have the speed, but there are cracks in that foundation!
And people say F1 is not exciting...
Touching wheels at 200 mph isn't good, especially between teammates.. I figure they lost about 12 points.
I consider Vettel to be the genuine article, I really question his motivation on this..
you figure they only lost 12 points?
25 points for Webber in 1st and 18 points for Vettel in 2nd. With Vettel retiring on no points, and Webber settling for 3rd with 15 points that sees Red Bull with a 28 point loss, and sitting in second in the constructors championship, 1 point behind McLaren.
I think Vettel still has a little too much youthful exhuberance. I think he is genuinely quick, but he has a ways to go before he is "champion caliber". I think even Hamilton has a few more years before he reaches the same caliber, even though he has already won (lucked into) a WDC.
I f Webber wants to lead, he needs to drive faster and not hold up the parade!
How's that?
I don't drink that crap, nor like frenchy motors . . . .but RedBull has WINGS!
As bad as it was for Red Bull -- it could have been much, much worse as fragile as the FI spec racers are at the corners. Webber was fortunate and resourceful to salvage a podium finish. At the end of the year, those points could be huge in the drivers' and constructors' points races. For the television spectator, this was much more entertaining than having no passing and 20 seconds between the places.
maroon92 brings up good points.. I may be out of the loop on the scoring.
The other fellow is an idiot..
maroon92 wrote: I think Vettel still has a little too much youthful exhuberance. I think he is genuinely quick, but he has a ways to go before he is "champion caliber". I think even Hamilton has a few more years before he reaches the same caliber, even though he has already won (lucked into) a WDC.
Agree on both points.
When Seb calms down a bit he'll be more consistent; no one aside from Red Bull wants to see that happen any time soon.
Lewis has tremendous talent, but he's damn hard to like outside the cockpit. And his gf is pretty hot, at least until she speaks.
IMO, this is the best year in a long time for F1. Looks like Schumi might be coming on now too. It's pure gold Jerry, pure gold.
Sebs fault, at least 90%. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Mark and Sebs first encounter away from the cameras.
My wife and I ended up waking our guests out of their restful sleep with whooping and hollerin' when Seb threw it all away. A good time was had by all (who were actually watching the race).
I found it even more hilarious when Button and Hamilton almost had a similar incident. It was like the red mist had taken over everyone's mind.
I just don't think Seb has been happy with second place behind his teammate. After his successes last year, I just think it's messing with him and he made a sketchy move that didn't work out. Looking at the replays it was hard for me to say all the blame was definitely all on Seb. However, as the passing car and more importantly teammate, it was still largely his responsibility to make a clean pass.
In reply to NYG95GA:
If he didn't race his team mate, he wouldn't be racing at all.
During the post race interview while Button was answering his questions, Hamilton asks Weber what happened and they whisper back and forth off mic, but Weber's hands show clearly his side of the story. He has his tewo hands side by side and then the left hand suddenly swerves into the right hand.
Weber gave Vettel no room, but why would he? He wants to win. Weber is the one driver on the F1 circuit who I would be wary about driving next to...he usually seems to have a penchant for trying to make the impossible pass. This time he just refused to volunteer to take P2.
Vettel had him by 1/2 a length at least, and the inside going into a left hander (to inside in fact so he needed room to the right)
Hard to pass is one thing, not knowing when to GTFOOTW and dashing your teammate is another.
BOOO Weber!
Yep, guy on the right was trying to keep him pinched way down so he wouldn't have a line for the corner. Good racing on the world stage lol.
"If you ain’t first, you’re last!" - Ricky Bobby
I thin that Vettel was on the dirty line and when he hit his brakes, his car pulled to the right. I really can't see Vettel driving into webber on purpose. weber could have given him some room and avoided the whole mess (or could have gone faster and not been passed).
In reply to Rusnak_322:
I thought it was a stupid move, but I think Vettel is getting really tired of playing second fiddle to Webber.
BBC
Rusnak_322 wrote: I thin that Vettel was on the dirty line and when he hit his brakes, his car pulled to the right. I really can't see Vettel driving into webber on purpose. weber could have given him some room and avoided the whole mess (or could have gone faster and not been passed).
Agreed, Webber didn't give him any room, but he didn't have to. He wasn't pushing Seb off track either. Webber just held his line, no fault of his what-so-ever. It might have turned out okay, until Seb's car jerked right and the fat lady sang him a song.
I won't say that F1 is the most interesting series this year, but someone did sneak in some miracle-gro on to the official spectating lawn this season.
On Speed channel last night, they said the owners blamed Weber for not moving over for Sab. I don't agree but I am not paying for those cars either.
Yeah, the official party line is Vettel was faster because he had saved an extra gallon of fuel while following earlier, so Webber had to back off to conserve fuel one lap earlier. Because of that, when Seb attacked Webber should have yielded, says the team boss. Nuts to that I say, Webber held his line and didn't move an inch until Vettel turns right into him.
It's no wonder that Webber hasn't signed a new deal with Red Bull (his current deal ends this season). If the team management were smart and/or wanted a fair fight between teammates they would have just said "racing incident" and hashed it out behind closed doors. They clearly see Seb as the future and Webber as already achieving past his potential, and are placating Seb to secure him for the future.
pigeon wrote: .... They clearly see Seb as the future and Webber as already achieving past his potential, and are placating Seb to secure him for the future.
Mark is one of the most liked drivers among the other drivers, and he has as much credibility as anyone..
He's known as driving a "wide" car.
It's racing for sure.
NYG95GA wrote:pigeon wrote: .... They clearly see Seb as the future and Webber as already achieving past his potential, and are placating Seb to secure him for the future.Mark is one of the most liked drivers among the other drivers, and he has as much credibility as anyone.. He's known as driving a "wide" car. It's racing for sure.
Agree about Webber but being well-liked by the drivers doesn't get you anything with management if they don't think you will be fast next year. I predict he'll be in a Renault next year in Kubica's former seat, and Kubica in Massa's Ferrari seat.
Anybody who has raced knows, stay on your line, don't weave, they pound this in during drivers briefings.
Webber did exactly what is required, damned if he was going to hand the lead over, it is a race after all. Webber made no move to the left at all, and Vettel had 4 tires on tarmac when his car darted right, probably due to being in the marbles as stated.
Vettel had to make a clean pass and he failed.
Booo Vettel
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