In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Thank you! I'm not sure what camp I'm in - probably both. I like the fit and civic but also the three series.
I will see if I can find an xrs. The 2zz is a neat engine.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Thank you! I'm not sure what camp I'm in - probably both. I like the fit and civic but also the three series.
I will see if I can find an xrs. The 2zz is a neat engine.
In reply to mmcvay :
Seller says no reinforcement done but no sign of cracking. Is that a deal breaker?
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Talked to seller, not available until Saturday. But I bet you there's a lot of GRM'ers near there. Atlanta has a good car community.
If it's missing a subframe brace then yeah that's a red flag for sure. I'm not super familiar with the E46 substructure but I'm sure you can Google it.
Yes, good car culture here. I'll be in central Florida for the next 6 weeks, near Disney, if you see anything
That's about the cleanest E46 I've seen since they came out.
I know the M3 had that triangular brace, but I'm wondering if the 328i (which this looks like given the pre-update headlights) didn't come with it. It was common for BMW to do this type of thing, and I don't see it pictured in this thread. Which is also a good thread for learning hat to look for on E46s. Terry Fair knows BMWs well.
Don't be surprised if that E46 doesn't feel all that sporty. My memory is the early E46 had pretty slow steering, and softer suspension.
Even as clean as it is, I'd still go with a newer Japanese car if I were you.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Yep, did a bit of googling and it sounds like the lack of a brace is a big deal. However, from what I can gather, it also sounds like a brace is a temporary bandaid. On the bmw forums they say that the load path is poor and eventually even reinforced cars will do. There is a special different type of reinforcement that is allegedly better at transferring the load.
I thought I found something really special but I'm terrified of that cracking. I really don't want to buy it and immediately spend 2 thousand plus to get the reinforcements welded in. If I could weld (i want to learn) then I would definitely jump on it but being an early car without a brace, it's less exciting.
The seller said:
"The guy I bought it from was the original owner and the only person outside of the dealership that drove the car. He gold me he always drove it carefully. He is also pretty old lol so I believe it. Subframe issues are mostly on the m cars also. So with the miles and the way it’s been driven, I wouldn’t say you need to worry about it immediately. It all depends on what you’re gonna use the car for"
In terms of cars near orlando, I think I have a couple that I found. I'd love to run them by you.
In reply to CyberEric :
I was really exciting by the impeccable cleanliness. However, the cracking issue terrifies me. I did some reading and it seems like the cracking is inevitable, mentioned in the vorschlag thread. It also costs 1.5-2k or more due to welding and time etc. If I knew how to weld yet I would do it immediately, but I dont want to buy a car that I immediately drop 1.5k in necessary preventative maintenance.
I drove an e46. I enjoyed it, but it definitely wasnt as stiff suspension wise as, for example, the fit or the civic. The steering ratio was pretty slow, but had some feel.
I'm definitely not set on an e46, but I was taken in by the ridiculous cleanliness. It also seems like the most purposely designed as a true sporty car compared to most of these aother whichs are economy cars sportified, or straight up luxury cars
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Couple of cars in orlando area. Do any of those strike you as interesting?
Clean '04 Ion Redline in Orlando - $5,700
And this violates every rule of what is a good car - terrible modifications, clearly owned by a ricer kid. HOWEVER, it is a cheap FR-S that I might be able to stretch to in budget, and the FR-S is the best car in the cheap range of 2+2, fun, manual sports cars. And I really want one lol. Also, how bad could a 2013 car be? Also found a couple cheap ones elsewhere with various things (terrible mods, rebuilt titles, etc etc). But this one is in central FL
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:So there is the whole concept of being more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. That's discussed often here. It's a matter of personal opinion, no right or wrong. I used to be in the drive a slow car fast camp, but I am now firmly on the other side. I don't find it entertaining to have to mercilessly whip on my car just to avoid being run over by Soccer Mom Sally in her Range Rover. The whole debate is really centered around acceleration on the road and I'm a corners guy, and any car can corner quick on public roads. So I'll take the fast car every time to save myself and the car from endless beatings.
Yes, the XRS or GT are significantly better than the base model cars. I will say though that my younger son now has a manual transmission Matrix XR and it's pretty enjoyable.
I'm the polar opposite. Not only do I love wringing the crap out of older pieces of underpowered junk...now that I can afford it I like to purposely abuse and wreck them too. It's sort of an outlet for my early years of buying a new car off the lot and handling it with white gloves for a decade.
A 2013 Toyobaru will have the EZ-bake CoP modules, the achey-breaky clutch fork, and the leaky rear cam cover that were fixed for 2017, other than that, that one doesn't look bad. The stage 3 clutch is at least 2 stages of overkill for the other mods the car has, but most of the other mods are minor and easily reversible (I would be mainly focused on removing the ridiculous rear window louvers). Have you checked on the cost to insure one though?
In reply to twowheeled :
It seems fun, and less stressful than something really expensive or nice. I'm not sure having not driven many cars.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Thank you! The CoP module and cam cover seem fairly easier to change compared to a clutch fork. How can I check for these issues.
My dad has been busy so hasn't had a chance to check on insurance. He's going to
In reply to Evanuel9 :
You can swap the CoPs and connectors (wiring harness mods required) from a 2017+ FA20 and there are upgraded aftermarket clutch forks and rear cam covers available to fix those issues.
The clutch fork issue should be obvious with a very messed-up clutch action, with a "stage 3" clutch installed if that hasn't been upgraded already it will probably cause an issue quickly with the increased force needed to operate the upgraded clutch. The leaking rear cam cover would cause an oil leak from the back of the engine. The CoP overheating issue tends to only reveal itself on track, you'd lose ignition to a cylinder once everything is heat soaked (edit: driver's side rear is the one usually affected IIRC? Also there may be a recall for the car to get later-model coil packs swapped in) and it won't work again until everything cools down, or the CoP might even need to be replaced. You can also mitigate that issue by insulating the coils and improving engine bay ventilation but swapping to later CoPs is the best fix.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Thank you so much!
I also just found this one. Already contacted seller. If my parents approve I would buy it at asking for cash, if there's not some sort of catastrophic issue. The rocker dent doesnt look bad but I can't imagine it's a true frame issue, and it's good for lowering the value. A stick FR-S would be the perfect car for me - meeting my parents requirements of 2+2 and preferences for safer, newer cars and my want for a sporty coupe that's like a miata.
Also found this one. It is a bit more expensive but if the other one has already sold.
I'd remove my left nut for a toyobaru and I'm freaking out that I found two in my comfortable price range.
Edit: got over excited and didn't read the ad. Second one has "motor tick"
Both of those dents would be expensive repairs. The question is how much do you care? They're cosmetic only but to fix it would not be cheap.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
I dont care at all. I'd be fine with a dent on every body panel with scratches across the entire car if it got me a cooler car at a cheaper price.
I did not properly read the ad however on the second one. He mentions and engine tick. Valvetrain issues are expensive.
Yes they are. Remember that cosmetic issues like that will hurt you at resale.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Wow! Holy crap is that clean. Is the x model good? I know you said you didn't love AWD.
Evanuel9 said:In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Wow! Holy crap is that clean. Is the x model good? I know you said you didn't love AWD.
My sister had AWD E90 stick shift. From an enthusiast/performance standpoint - within the first 500ft of driving I didn't like it. Try before you buy.
You can PM me deets, but where in Chicago land are you? I can show you the VTEC glory that is an 8th gen Civic.
Evanuel9 said:In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Wow! Holy crap is that clean. Is the x model good? I know you said you didn't love AWD.
Yes, at the limits of traction I am not a huge fan of AWD. However, you aren't there yet and it's a while before you do. My E90 is a 328xi. The AWD in mine doesn't work because of a bad solenoid and I have zero intention of fixing it. It's rwd now and I'm happy.
For you, AWD may not be bad for now. It'll be great in Chicago winter
AWD BMW and college. Yuck.
Id rather spend my time doing other things than wrenching on a car though.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
So i drove an e90 328i coupe today. It felt fast, and very capable, and comfortable, but honestly I didn't feel as fun. It felt like a very grand tourer style car than a sports car. I didn't feel as much of the road and while the car was very responsive, it didn't have the same driving feel as some of the other cars of driven (mentioned in next comment). Honestly, I think I'm going to cross it off the list. It felt very capable and very fast, but a bit too luxurious and GT for my taste.
In reply to CyberEric :
I love wrenching!
Still, off the list for another reason - just didn't feel the same sporty fun as some other cars.
Did some more test drives:
E90 328i coupe in very nice condition
2014 mini in less great condition (felt a clutch slipping at slow speeds, but it was auto. Do these things have single clutch autos? Wicked driveline vibration).
2008 civic ex in great mechanical condition
2008 vw r32 (could find a gti in the area at the time but this was around, impulse drive)
So my thoughts
The e90 didn't feel boaty or soft or loose like I expected due to its size, but it did feel very insulated and almost too comfortable. It didn't have that same analog sports car feel that I expected. I didn't have as much steering feel, suspension didn't talk to me as much, and was just not as engaging. It also felt almost a tad too capable for the street to really push it hard, but that might be my grandma driving. But it felt very (too?) composed. I loved the torque on demand though, the tightness of everything and the responsiveness, and the interior was gorgeous. So minimalist and clean yet comfy.
The mini was fun (base Cooper). Better steering and generally more feel from the inputs and everything. However, it didn't wow me in the way I expected. It wasn't as engaging as the fit. Doesn't mean it wasn't necessarily less fun, but less buzzy and connected feeling. I still really enjoyed the handling and the acceleration advantage was nice.
2008 civic ex. Meh. The gas and brake pedal felt good, steering was nice off-center but a little numb and it felt dead near the center. Suspension was comfy and it was fun to absolutely pin it but it didn't really feel all that fun or sporty. If I'm going econobox I'd prefer a fit. Not terrible but just meh.
Lastly the r32. Dsg wasnt awesome and the car felt pretty jerky and a little clumsy on inputs. However, it felt like a combo between the three series power and mini handling. This was the only car that I didn't pin it on because it scared the E36 M3 out of me. The acceleration was intense. Would buy if they came in stick but dsg isn't a stick and it sucks, especially reliability wise.
Good feedback. Sounds to me like the droid you are seeking is going to be a Fit or Mazda2. If you can stretch the budget maybe '07 ish Civic Si
You'll need to log in to post.
