Weight vs Driven Wheels for fun and car control

In reply to theruleslawyer :

That's a good way to look at it. I think if I can get it inspected before I go down there that might make them change their minds. i asked but still waiting on a response lol

So the answer was maybe, which might be a no but naturally I already got to looking.

Found an FR-S in my price range down in TN. So if anyone is down near knoxville and wants to take a look that would be awesome! The only FR-S/BRZ/86 i've seen near my price point. Owner says he was planning to build a drift car but didn't. Mismatched front bumper and front driver side QP. Missing rear bumper. Rear interior is out but present and complete. Feels like the perfect car. Checks my parents boxes of 2+2, relatively safe, and reliable and semi practical. Checks my boxes of light, fun, sporty, and cool. If this works out it'll be awesome! If not I'll move one. But I'm optimistic!

Anyway, exciting developments. Still haven't decided on whether I value drivetrain or weight more but if this turns out to be an option the decision might be made for me! And if not I'll come back to making a decision lol. 

Do check out the insurance costs on that before you get your hopes up too much, and make sure you're sitting down when they give you the number You'd never know it by the lack of Toyobarus in any junkyard, but they're the world's most crashed vehicle.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Fair enough - i'm sure my parents will check before they approve or say no

New question. Would it perhaps be more reasonable to reduce my budget and use the extra $$$ for mods, safety equipments, and most importantly proper track tires. I had accounted for helmet cost in my budget but not for a set of track tires or too much for mods. Thoughts?

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Been looking at minis lately. Any thoughts/advice? How has your ownership experience been? Are they as expensive as BMWs?

Evanuel9 said:

New question. Would it perhaps be more reasonable to reduce my budget and use the extra $$$ for mods, safety equipments, and most importantly proper track tires. I had accounted for helmet cost in my budget but not for a set of track tires or too much for mods. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that I've never bought a used car that I didn't have to spend more money on just about immediately. There's always been something, and it'll be easier for you if you have some money to spend on any necessities that pop up. 

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Been looking at minis lately. Any thoughts/advice? How has your ownership experience been? Are they as expensive as BMWs?

I ran a 2003 MINI Cooper S for 16 years until it got wrecked by an errant Kenworth. I loved the car, but I would never advise anyone to buy one thinking they're economical. It got about 31 MPH highway, but needed 93 octane. It left me stranded once when the starter failed, but was reliable otherwise. There were other issues, but I could drive it to the specialty shop I used for repairs. Over the 16 years it cost me close to $10K in repairs, routine maintenance and consumables. If you want fun, reliable and cheap get a Miata. The MINI is a great fun car, just don't fool yourself into believing it's economical. Now, aweek after my original MINI was wrecked I replaced it with another one that was manufactured the same day, so I'm a bit of a masochist.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

Evanuel9 said:

New question. Would it perhaps be more reasonable to reduce my budget and use the extra $$$ for mods, safety equipments, and most importantly proper track tires. I had accounted for helmet cost in my budget but not for a set of track tires or too much for mods. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that I've never bought a used car that I didn't have to spend more money on just about immediately. There's always been something, and it'll be easier for you if you have some money to spend on any necessities that pop up. 

At minimum I change all the fluids so I know they have been done. Engine oil, trans oil, diff oil, brake fluid, coolant, etc. You'll also need filters- oil, air, cabin.  Tires, check the date codes even if they have tread. Look at the belts for cracks, particularly timing belt if not a chain. But yah, usually there are at least a few mechanical issues aside from maintenance that need addressed.

I miss $500 E30s. It was a good car for $500. Not $5,000 and god forbid $10k.

I feel old.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

Fair enough - I have budgeted 500 for immediate items but I meant more like reducing my budget by 1000+ for big issues and/or safety/track equipment

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Thanks! I am looking at a couple of 2006 cooper S. I am very willing to do my own work, and semi capable (i've done basic stuff) but I only have a socket and ratchet set, jack and jackstands, and some basic power tools so I'm not necessarily capable of doing big stuff like engine outs (though I'm happy to buy an engine crane and stand lol).

I really really want a miata but my parents just won't allow it no matter what I say. Not necessarily looking for something very economical, but mostly fun and not ridiculously unreliable. 

Which years/generations are best? Are the cooper S worth the weight addition over the standard cooper? 

In reply to theruleslawyer :

Thank you! This is really helpful concrete stuff to plan for. Appreciate it!

In reply to mr2peak :

Damn, a 5k e30 sounds nice let alone 500

Thoughts on a z31 300zx? Around 3000 pounds, 2+2, and japanese. Maybe a better alternative to bimmer coupes?

In reply to Evanuel9 :

Best 1st gen MINIs are the 05-06 models. Yes, the "S" is worth it. The regular Cooper is certainly fun, but the extra 60 horses makes the "S" a different animal.

SN197 - you could have a club spec car that people are excited for... https://www.scca.com/announcements/642-club-spec-updated-rules-and-buyer-s-guides

350Z

FRS

NC

Maaaaaybe RX8

E46 3 

I'm really not convinced that you can feel that one car is lighter than another.... You can feel how squishy the bushings and tires are, how slow the yaw rate and yaw acceleration is, how soft the springs are..... but we don't have manual steering or brakes anymore.

With the appropriate tuning, a heavy car will go, stop, and turn as fast as a light car. It will just cost more $$$ while doing it.

You don't need proper trackday tires to go to the track. You will need a fully functional car though. That means the brakes are in excellent shape, it doesn't leak oil, the suspension is functional, etc. that is why we advise you to avoid those cool old cars on your list. For equipment, most organizations will let you run with a certain type of helmet. Personally I'd add some fire resistant clothing, which is quite cheap in the form of a pair of fr rated coveralls. 

gencollon said:

SN197 - you could have a club spec car that people are excited for... https://www.scca.com/announcements/642-club-spec-updated-rules-and-buyer-s-guides

350Z

FRS

NC

Maaaaaybe RX8

E46 3 

 

I'm really not convinced that you can feel that one car is lighter than another.... You can feel how squishy the bushings and tires are, how slow the yaw rate and yaw acceleration is, how soft the springs are..... but we don't have manual steering or brakes anymore.

With the appropriate tuning, a heavy car will go, stop, and turn as fast as a light car. It will just cost more $$$ while doing it.

You would definitely feel the difference in dynamics between a 350Z and a NC. But when you're splitting hairs down to 100lbs it's not going to make much difference. Which is why I would suggest to the OP pick a weight you want to stay under, ie 2900lbs, and don't sweat the small stuff. A 2400lb-2600lb car feels like a small car. A 3300lb-3500lb car feels like a heavy car.

Dynamics, yes. Weight? 

And you can modify the dynamics. Put poly bushings and 315 tires on a Z (somehow while keeping good geometry) and it should react more Miata-like.

E36

In reply to gencollon :

Mustangs and miatas are out. No miatas because parents say no two seater sports cars and no mustangs because they say no mustangs. I am scared of the rx8, particularly for maintenance and reliability. 

My top car is an frs but I cannot find one near me. E46 3 series are also in the running, though I prefer the e36. 350z are out because they're ridiculously heavy compared to everything else I'm looking at. 

From my experience I have definitely felt a weight difference. My friends newer Corolla felt much different than another friend's first gen fit, which both felt a lot better than my mom's SUV. Inertia is a powerful thing. 

In reply to twowheeled :

Isn't it a bad idea to use the same tires for street and track on account of wear and grip? Or am I way off base. 

Best place to look for fire resistant coveralls? Definitely plan to get a helmet of course 

That is part of my dilemma. Do I go with something that is cooler and more of a sports car like an e36 or something more reliable, cheaper to maintain, and with it's own class like a fit

In reply to twowheeled :

Once again I'm gonna disclaim that I haven't driven many cars but I agree I've definitely felt a difference in weight.

For me, I have a hard to with a hard weight cutoff for the very dilemma that this thread is about - is it worth it to get something heavier if that car has rwd (or awd). My cutoff for fwd econoboxes and hot hatches is 2700 because since rwd 3 series are about 3000 lbs there seems to be no point in getting a 2800-2900 lbs fwd econobox. But I'm not sure if 2400 fwd box is going to be better to learn on or more fun than a 3000 lbs rwd 3 series.

The obvious answer is the 318ti but the only one near me has (suspected) electrical issues

In reply to gencollon :

So more money and consumables can approximate a lighter car lol. The 350z weight is a hard pill to swallow