I'm not going to go back and review this whole thread, but has anyone suggested a Hyundai Veloster? I see them in your price range routinely.
I'm not going to go back and review this whole thread, but has anyone suggested a Hyundai Veloster? I see them in your price range routinely.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
In reply to CyberEric:
Im also, admittedly, having a hard time understanding the logic behind pretending they all weight the same. As a car nerd and engineering nerd, I keep thinking about the concept of inertia and how, if there is more weight, it means greater inertia and greater force required to change direction. If you add weight, you have to pay in other area like tire and brake wear, greater force needed to change direction, higher gas burn, less grip, etc. somethings gotta give even if you do get power benefits. Now I understand that heavier cars can be made to handle nimbly, but I don't understand how they could or would feel the same and the logic behind conparing them as such.
Can I get some more info/explanation?
Also hope this doesn't come off offensively, I'm genuinely curious and not disagreeing.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
If you're just getting into motorsports as a hobby, the simple fact of the matter is you don't have the skillset to maximize those differences. If and when you develop that skillset, then you can start to analyze those things. For the time being, as long as the car is safe, the mantra should be 'run whatcha brung'. Seat time > anything else.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Yes, i believe it was suggested in the other thread. I had discounted it due to weight but now that im considering heavier cars I might be considering it again
In reply to Puddy46 :
In terms of speed on track, I definitely get that. In terms of fun on the road, and maybe autocross speed though, it would seem like weight is absolutely relevant
Puddy46 said:In reply to Evanuel9 :
If you're just getting into motorsports as a hobby, the simple fact of the matter is you don't have the skillset to maximize those differences. If and when you develop that skillset, then you can start to analyze those things. For the time being, as long as the car is safe, the mantra should be 'run whatcha brung'. Seat time > anything else.
Exactly this. No offense at all but you're a long way from having the skills to truly appreciate the differences. You just need to learn how to handle a car, any weight. Yes, more weight means more gas and other consumables used. However from a learning and having fun perspective it's irrelevant. Those are your goals, correct? Learn and have fun. I promise you can have as much fun in a 3500lb FWD car as you would in a 2500lb RWD car.
Are you doing autox or HPDE? In autox you are making drastic directional changes at relatively low speed. It's a different dynamic than HPDE. For a rookie weight still shouldn't matter, but you will notice it quicker in autox.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
I'm looking to do both. Likely autocross more often because there is the chicago area SCCA, but also hpde and track days at autbahn country club.
I'm coming around to the idea that weight likely won't matter, but I'm looking to understand why.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Yep, those are my goals.
No offense taken lol
SKJSS posts are taking the words right out of my brain!
In addition to what SKJSS said, remember, it's quite hard to find the perfect car in this class for the price you want to pay. There weren't that many made for the US market for starters. And on top of that, there are not that many leightweight, MT cars with good driving dynamics that haven't been modded poorly, have a billion miles, been poorly maintained, crashed, and also are not a Miata. That's why everyone always says it's the answer.
If I were you, I'd buy that Sentra. Or the nicest Mazda 2, 3, 6, Ford Focus, Scion, Yaris, Rio, Fiesta (with the I4, not the I3) I could find.
I used to race an E36 M3, it was much heavier than my Miata that I owned later, but it wasn't any less fun.
I think you're getting in your own head about this. We've given you a good list of cars. Just buy the best one you can.
Sent you an email
Evanuel9 said:In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
I'm looking to do both. Likely autocross more often because there is the chicago area SCCA, but also hpde and track days at autbahn country club.
I'm coming around to the idea that weight likely won't matter, but I'm looking to understand why.
Simply put, you're looking at this purely from a numbers standpoint. Add in an X factor, and everything changes.
A prime example, Sully:
The best way to get there is seat time, in whatever you can. I started autocrossing in a '93 Pontiac Bonneville, and learned way more in that than I did any other car. It's ok to not have a featherweight car right off the bat. The fact that you want to get out there and learn means you're already way ahead of the curve.
So update. Test drive a bone stock, 28000 mile, beautifully clean 2000 civic ex. Unfortunately it was autotragic and I did not love the gearing. However, I loved the car. The suspension felt good, not too soft but not uncomfortable either. There was not a lot of low end and basically no mid range torque, but the engine wanted to rev which was fun. But I would put my foot down and get lots of noise without the accompanying acceleration. Then again I'm spoiled by my mom's electric assisted hybrid SUV. The steering had more feel than the bimmer and much more than the '06 civic si but it had such a slow ratio. Not much would happen until about 0.75 turns and a 90 degree turn took more than 1 rotation. It liked that it was small and low to the ground.
I love this generation civic, but would need to find a manual. It was so clean though.
Will update tomorrow when I drive a few more cars.
In reply to CyberEric :
Yep, it seems impossible to find the right car, and the good ones go quick.
I'm gonna get a few more test drives under my belt of the staples - fit, mazda2, 8th gen base civic, fiesta, yaris, and maybe a focus. hate the scion tc and xb though, so ugly.
I am getting in my head 100%, it's just one of my personality failings. I've decided to drive some more of the staples and then pick the nicest one I can find of the cars that I liked
In reply to Puddy46 :
Thank you! Honestly yeah, the learning is the most important part, I just have a tendency to analyze and optimize everything I'm interested in and that often leads to overthinking. I just need seat time.
John Welsh said:In reply to Evanuel9 :
More fringe...
Heavier than a Civic but K24 goodness to make up for it.
Winner winner chicken dinner! I love that idea. It can really do it all. It's fun and reliable. K24 is a beast.
In reply to John Welsh :
Now that is actually cool. My mom LOVES acura. In my price range and nearby. Should I be scared of electrical problems with that rear window issue?
I promise i'll stop throwing cars out there but I did want to ask, now that I'm opening up my horizons/options, what the GRM thouights are on the muscle compacts - neon srt-4 and cobalt ss. I've heard reliability stories from both that aren't amazing, but they're also american, economy car based platforms so they can't be all bad? and they are fast. Thoughts? Steer clear or consider? I have seen a couple limited rust examples of the cobalt and one decent srt around here.
Also, why do sport compacts (srt-4, cobalt ss, civic si, mazdaspeed 3, etc) tend to attract people who put the stupidest mods on their cars, or mods that they swear "will make 400 horsepower once you tune it" but seem like they're about 0.5 psi of boost away from making a new inspection passthrough in the block?
Evanuel9 said:In reply to John Welsh :
Now that is actually cool. My mom LOVES acura. In my price range and nearby. Should I be scared of electrical problems with that rear window issue?
No. These cars are reliable as the sunrise
The GM SS cars are decent reliability, not Honda great. Forget the Neon, though I did race in one and loved it.
One last idea, though not as good as the TSX, is the Infiniti G35 or G37. Terrific platform.
IMO, "the" answer for me would be E46 or early E90 328i. However upkeep costs could be trouble. The TSX or G37 are great alternatives.
Re: windows.
Ad states: Everything works except that the left side rear window will not respond to the drivers electrical switch. However the left rear window will respond to the electrical switch in the back seat.
I like that the seller has included this. The reason I like it is because most sellers would see this as trivial and either not mention it or hope to hide it (and you'd likely not learn of it until after buying it.)
So, to reiterate, the rear left window can not be lowered from the driver's seat but it does work if you are a back seat passenger and use the widow switch on the back door. That leads me to believe it is a driver's door switch problem. Not a window motor problem.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Got it, honda reliability is legendary haha.
I've also heard bad things about the neon suspension design. They also seem to have been beat on more. Less reliable? They both seem closer in design philosophy to muscle cars rather than sports c cars in comparison to the japanese sport compacts/hot hatches. Then again the cobalt did hold a 'ring record so fair enough.
What makes it worse than the TSX? What makes it a good platform? They seem more of a GT than a sports car but then again I haven't driven them. I've also read (epa site) about bad MPG.....?
I like the e46 and the 2000 civic best so far, but realistically I don't want to kill myself on maintenance cost and never actually get to drive the damn thing. Some people say e46s aren't so bad, others say they are, but BMW has an expensive reputation. I'm just not sure. Will consider the G35/37.
So far my list has become:
I will likely be test driving the 2-5 cars, 8, and maybe 7 & 9, but I only have concrete plans for 2-5 and 8. I also will probably test drive a mini - not because I will buy one - the reliability seems worse than the e46 chassis bimmers, but because I want to see what I'm missing out on with a car that's really lauded for handling. Once the test drives are over this week and early next week, I will narrow down my list to my favorite cars, and look for a nice example of each. If i can find the nicest one in my price I'll jump on that.
There's also the question of cost/condition. It seems like some of these cars, namely the acura, honda fit, base 8th gen, and mazda2 are a lot cheaper for a lot nicer condition cars than the others which are known for cheap speed and thus often modded or trashed. I have to make a decision between a cooler car, which will cost more and leave less budget for consumables, and mods and likely be in worse condition, or a more boring car that will be cheaper, leave more budget room, and likely be in better condition.
Anyway I know this thread is probably annoyingly long, but it helps to get my thoughts out into the forum. Feel free to ignore the rambling.
In reply to John Welsh :
Got it, thanks for the info and explanation. Once I finish all my test drives, which will likely include a tsx, I will narrow down my list and likely contact the seller. It actually seems like a neat car - if pretty antithetical to most of my car philosophies lol. I weirdly like it.
Its not annoyingly long. This is the buying process for most of us. Sure, maybe we don't write it as much but we have the same process. I also understand this is your first major purchase and you want to get it right!
Currently, I'm shopping for a new home. Talk about headache! I use your car buying adventure as mental relief from my home buying adventure!
#1 = Condition. Buy the best condition car you can find. I sense that you want to buy a car and improve on it, go from par to above-par, that's great. But if the car you buy a car in sub-par, you will spend a lot of effort and dollars just to get it to par. That might be enough hamper that you never achieve above-par.
In reply to John Welsh :
Thank you - I'm sure most of you guys had a similar experience with your first cars. Then again the internet has made analysis easier.
So if I can find one of the cooler cars in bone stock and decent condition in my price, then go for it - otherwise compromise a bit on speed/cool factor/performance or whatever to get something that will be in better condition and stock because it will save me heartache for the long run?
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