Welders

Well crap I am now more confused then before. I don't know which 110 or 220. It seems everyone has there own opinion.

It should be relatively cheap to run a 220V circuit. I had less that $100 in running a 50A circuit with two plugs. 220 gives you a lot more options.

I added three 220v circuits to my garage, one for the upright Ingersol-Rand 60 gal compressor, one for the welder and one for my lift. It's not that hard or expensive. If you're squeemish about electrical, run the 10-3 (10 gauge - 3 strand) Romex yourself and pay an electrician to do the final hookup, that way you're not paying him to do the grunt work when you can do that yourself.

I have the Miller EconoTIG as well and the only problem I have is working on thin gauge material. It seems to have difficulty controlling the heat at the lowest settings.

I have a 220v circuit available where the welder would be. Is a 220v welder much more expensive then a 110v?

If you can afford it, the Miller Passport is a sweet machine. 120 or 240V and it is still portable.

If you can afford it, the Miller Passport is a sweet machine. 120 or 240V and it is still portable.

How much would I be looking at?

Go on e-bay, IOC. Many choices to confuse you even more. Name brand is always best. IOC does not carry refurb units.

If you have 220 available, that's a good thing and a dual voltage machine would be great. Remember, it's like a car: the more features you add, the more expensive it is. You have to weigh whether those additional features are really worth it to you. There have been times it would have been 'easier' to have a 220v machine, but the little 110v beastie has always come through in the end. If I were doing this for a living, I'd probably have one of each.

Most of what I do is .135 or thinner, a fair amount of body steel and engine mount brackets and stuff. I have welded .095 and .134 roll bar tubing with good penetration (actually did a test joint with .134 and cut it apart to see, on power setting 'D' with #3 wire speed I had full penetration), 2" x .120 wall mild steel joined to 1/2" thick Racing Beat header flanges and have done some other much thicker stuff by beveling and filling, like the 3/4" diameter solid rod for the J-H shifter and the 13/16" OD steering rack for the Abomination. In all the time I have had this machine, it's gone into thermal shutdown only once and that was when we were doing the LeMons car 1.750 x .134 cage side bars on a 95 degree day in direct sunlight. Yeah, I was sweating like a pig.

I use innershield wire which works well but it spatters. That means more cleanup.

+1 on everything that Jensenman said.

I have a 110v welder that has gotten me through 2 LeMons car cages, making custom stuff for an MR2 Turbo, and doing assorted car and trailer repair.

I went with a Craftsman, when it was on sale.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920569000P?vName=Tools I like the fact that it's 110v and switches from gas to gasless welding easily. It's portable (without the cart) and I've thrown it in the back of my truck for races.

But with that said, I'm going to be picking up a 220v Tig set-up next year. We're putting together 2 or more LeMons cars for '09 and it is just going to make better looking welds for us.

Growing up in the land of Lincoln ( Cleveland Ohio region ) I've always owned , "red".

Learned to burn with 220 v stick. Now own a 110 v "pak" easily converted from flux wire to gas. And from steel to Al.

Works great for 90% of all car construction. Headers, body, and even tube chassis building, But now looking for a 220 TIG for better looking finished welds.

So I think I am going to look for a 220v but if I can't find a good one for my price range I will get a 110v. I may also keep my eyes open for a cheap used buzz box.

I bought a Miller 140 Autoset but... a quick comment on the IOC references. I thought that the IOC prices were good but still needed to get a bottle and some supplies - I called a local place and made a deal for the welder, 60lb bottle full of gas, a bag of extra tips, 10lbs of wire in 2 sizes and the total nut was about what IOC was charging for welder + empty 20lb bottle. Now I have a local place to get parts/warranty help that knows I spent some money with him and it didn't cost me anything extra to do it. Call around a little before you buy off the internet.

while a 220v machine is nice.. I'd go for a 110v cause it is cheaper.

Listen to Izzy when he talks. He welds cages for race cars and I've heard good things.. I think many on this board can vouch for his work. If he says something works and thats what he uses, that carries some weight. Especially when it is not a super expensive death machine.

Like anything in life, a more expensive machine makes it easier.. but can also cover up technique errors. Just like starting out in a cheap slower car in auto X will make sure you learn technique proper, before you get yourself that Z06(used for example) sure the z06 is faster in all respects but the torque will make up for a bad corner entry. I believe learning to produce good welds on a "sub standard" or cheaper machine will give you a major advantage. A 110v can do thick stuff multiple pass. How often will you weld 3/8" plate butt welded single pass?

Anyway.. buy a name brand if you can.. Hobart, Lincoln, and miller. I've used them all and they are OK not that I'm a stellar welding guy or anything.

ignorant wrote: Like anything in life, a more expensive machine makes it easier.. but can also cover up technique errors. I believe learning to produce good welds on a "sub standard" or cheaper machine will give you a major advantage.

Although I believe with your basic premise, by that logic, we should all start with an Oxy/Acetylene rig first.

My counterpoint is that you're more likely to enjoy the work and continue to improve when you have fewer problems as a beginner.

I started with a MIG and there's a reason they call them "MIG Monkeys"... even a monkey can operate a MIG with passable quality.

Fortunately, I have a friend who's a retired Navy welder and he gave me a couple weekends of free "lessons" which dramatically improved my skill in a very short time. If I had been fighting with a low quality machine, not only would I have been frustrated, possibly to the extent I'd given up, but he would have been completely intolerant of me purchasing poor quality tools and therefore I wouldn't be worthy of him wasting his time training a poser like me! ;)

Anyway, buy the best rig you can afford. You'll have more options, a better "experience" and fewer problems down the road. Buy local if possible. I worked a deal with my local welding supply when I bought my first Miller 175 w/tank, jacket, gloves, a couple of welding blankets, a pair of welding pliers 2 10lb spools of wire for only slightly more than the online prices and now I have "local" support in the event I have any problems or need some warranty work done.

Good luck!

ww wrote:

ignorant wrote: Like anything in life, a more expensive machine makes it easier.. but can also cover up technique errors. I believe learning to produce good welds on a "sub standard" or cheaper machine will give you a major advantage.

Although I believe with your basic premise, by that logic, we should all start with an Oxy/Acetylene rig first.

I don't advocate that, but many experienced people do.

Now I will say that I've used some real crap box welders, voltages and feeds flucuating all over the place will kill you.. Stupid beat up century peice of garbage.. arggh..

Definetly buy a good quality welder, but you don't need all the super bells and whistles. Also, a good local welding shop will setup any rig for you and let you test it out.

http://www.mahanyweld.com/home.asp <-- those guys are amazing. They have a classroom and a room to try out any welder you want, with 10 welding stations, a shelf full of pcs of material to try out(all types AL, Ti, Steel), great instruction, and service. I'd reccommend a local guy. If you find a good one that is. Some of the older places treat hobby guys with no respect..

I am learning TIG and MIG now in school for Formula SAE. And I have an oxy/acetylene rig available to work with.

I have never tried OA welding. Knowing me, I'd probably burn the Garage Majal to the ground. Mebbe I'll try it some day, far away from anything I really value.

Jensenman wrote: I have never tried OA welding. Knowing me, I'd probably burn the Garage Majal to the ground. Mebbe I'll try it some day, far away from anything I really value.

We set out LeMons car on fire around 10 times using the OA cut torch. I don't use it in the garage, we roll the car out.

Whatever you decide to purchase, go with a brand name that you can get parts and service for. No use buying a welder that you can't find tips for. My Miller machine has given me years of mostly trouble free service and I can find parts virtually anywhere. My personal tastes stick with either Miller or Lincoln. There are other good companies, but those two are at the top of the list. I'm not a fan of flux core or 110 welders, but I have seen 110v welders do an excellent job. Stock up on wire and spare parts. Guaranteed that if anything breaks or needs replacing, it will always be when the welding stores are closed. As far as I'm concerned, the only place stick welders should be used is for building bridges and buildings.