Well now! Shifting gears... hatchback questions

Mazdaspeed protege?
Lexus IS?
Benz 190E?
5 Series?

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the mileage of Subies. They outright suck. No they aren't built V8 suckage, but they aren't going to be more than 3-5mpg better than the Crown Vic. One of the worst 4-cylinder cars for mileage. And if you drive with some conscience you will get just as good in the Crown Vic. Not to mention how much cheaper a Vic is to insure and maintain.

Stick with the Vic, put 1/10 of the money you were looking to spend on a new car towards the extra gas cost vs the car you were looking to get, and save the rest. Sit down and actually crunch some numbers, you will find that with the amount of money you will save on gas, doesn't really warrant anything unless you look in the 10+ year range.

The other option is to get something that actually is a significant increase in MPG, and the only option that doesn't come with huge reliability, maintenance, and image problems is a TDI Jetta. Get 40+ mpg no matter how you drive, and if you are nice, get more than 50mpg. Otherwise, get something you will really enjoy driving, because saving money on gas is just a lousy excuse for purchasing a more expensive car with less than a 50% increase in mileage.

P71 wrote: Sorry, but only old turbobrick's do it for me.

I know they're wrong-wheel drive but have you tried a chipped 850/V70 with Konis and turbo-back? A friend has that setup and its awesome. My next brick will be FWD.

Probably.

just occured to me.. what is so different from arriving in a Miata than the p71. unless the rollbar is putting a crease in your back, the wrinkles in your suit will be there no matter what car you drive. Just make sure you take your jacket off before you sit down

P71 wrote: The P71 would probably be fine, but I have automotive ADD and this is the longest/most miles I've ever owned a car. I almost find myself making excuses to get rid of it for the next thing. My commute will be 70/30 highway/town

I noticed your P71 is a 2001. I own a 2000 Grand Marquis, and have driven a 2004 model. With the new suspension/R&P steering, its like a whole different car. its eery how much more well planted it was. If you haven't had a chance to drive one yet, I'd recommend checking a newer model out.

I will second the crappy mileage of Subarus as much as I like them.

We got about 20/25 in my wifes 00 Impreza 5 speed wagon. Its about the same in the "new" 04 Forester XT 5 speed. With me driving its probably seeing 15 city.

Other problem is the gearing. If you are going to be driving at 80mph (normal in FL) its likely going to drop closer to 22mpg.

MS Protege is sedan only, we want a wagon. IS wagon is rarer than an honest politician and costs as much as a healthy campaign contribution. 190E is waaayy too old. 3/5/7 = meh. BMW's do absolutely nothing for me.

I know mileage on Scooby's suck, I used to own one (granted a 91 Loyale, but it was still a boxer/AWD). I'm not changing for mileage (hell, I know my P71 will out-highway most WRX's), but I do need something a little less maintenance intensive and a little more useful for large/weird stuff.

When we had the RX-7 it was great because the hatchback is really, really useful. I hauled home more lumber in that thing than my 3 neighbor's F350's combined. We've had to borrow pickups for things that don't fit in the P71/GP trunks.

Also, the P71 is rapidly approaching 150K miles. So basically I'm bored with it, I'd like to turn back the clock at least 50K miles, and we really could utilize a hatch. Not to mention I don't want to drive the Miata in the winter (for fear of some other idiot hitting it) and again, crumpled suits don't work for work (I'm 220Lbs and out Miata has a rollbar and hardtop, give me a break!).

I think the turbo/AWD WRX would scratch a lot of itches and serve as a solid, reliable DD for the next few years.

Greg Voth wrote: I will second the crappy mileage of Subarus as much as I like them. We got about 20/25 in my wifes 00 Impreza 5 speed wagon. Its about the same in the "new" 04 Forester XT 5 speed. With me driving its probably seeing 15 city. Other problem is the gearing. If you are going to be driving at 80mph (normal in FL) its likely going to drop closer to 22mpg.

As for the mileage, we have to remember that this is the guy who fawns over the P71's ZOMG amazing mileage. The parent's 99 Panther got, according to it's computer, 21-23 mixed. My slightly hotrodded WRX wagon does 21-23 mixed, according to about a year of the ol' checking the odometer trick. Guess which one I'd rather take anywhere?

But yeah, I don't tell people it's good on gas. I just willingly keep filling it full of 93 because, well, it's worth it.

Saab 9-3, the one with a hatch, really sounds like it's right up your alley.

It is amazing for a 4000+ Lb full-size super sedan with a V8. I mean even a compact, 4-cylinder import can barely match it...

Again, not really concerned with gas all that much (I used to DD a carburetored rotary, everything gets good gas mileage to me now!). I need the utility and desire the newer/lower miles.

Looked at the 9-3, and yeah, no. That is one ugly car (coming from a guy who likes Gremlins). The 9-2X is interesting but the only one I've ever seen in real life was GRM's. I don't think they sold a single one in Washington...

Pushing things a bit older, how about a Saab 9000 Aero? Turbo with potential for stupid power, they're pre-GM Saabs so they avoided a lot of the cost cutting and issues GM injected, the hatch is freaking HUGE. I had a non-turbo 9kCSE (read loaded) for a year before it was rear ended and totaled. It did have some minor problems when I got it but once sorted it was a great road car - I bought mine to replace my Miata for a 75 mile one way commute so I speak from experience. The ergonomics are a bit different in terms of relationship of seat to wheel and shifter so a test drive is a must. Should be plenty cheap as I think the last ones were '97 models.

how about a v6 stang? or even a v8 of you do not mind feeding it. Many of them are hatchbacks, can be had all sorts of comfy like, and even in v8 form, get decent miliage on the highway and you will arrive at the office a little more relaxed than in a miata

The point of this exercise is to get a newer car so it has less miles/maintenance requirements. A 90's SAAB will not have less miles than my 01 P71.

And Mad Machine, I hate foxbody Mustangs (which were the only hatches), and they were last made in 93. Doesn't fit the 4-door need either.

This game sucks.

I will seriously re-bring up the point of grabbing a buddy's carset and sticking it in the rear seat of a WRX before you pull the trigger. My reverse facing kid (the older kid is forward facing, much more compact) stuffs my knees into the dash on my 940 Turbobrick. Driveable, but not fun.

pres589 wrote: Saab 9-3, the one with a hatch, really sounds like it's right up your alley.

This really sounds like it has everything you are after.

Other than the turbo, a Protege5 also fits your requirements. (If you really want boost, the Mazdaspeed protege motor (or turbo) bolts in).

I believe it has a touch bigger backseat than a WRX, (I've had both a single rear-facing in the center, and a rear facing behind the driver, and as long as you pick a short-ish rear facer, it worked for me), and if you get one with roofracks there's just about nothing you can't bring home (I am pretty sure it has a slightly larger "trunk" as well, as it's more almost wagon than a hatch.)

I will look at the newer 9-3 hatches again.

I did find this though, which ticks off all the boxes and is even WRC blue!

In reply to P71:

Hmm...AND the perfect car for STX next autocross season! I know a guy locally that uses his for commuting, kid hauling and autocrossing.

P71 wrote: I will look at the newer 9-3 hatches again. I did find this though, which ticks off all the boxes and is even WRC blue!

I think we MAY have a winnah, Ladies and Gents!!