What 4cyl bolts to a 4L60-e?

SWMBO's 2002 GMC Sonoma is creeping up on 200k on it, knowing her it will likely get there sometime next year. It's beat, it's been abused, it's a little ragged, but it's a stepside standard cab that has been in her family since new. It's actually her mom's truck, but it was given to us for the princly sum of keep it maintained. So no complaints about the price. Earlier this year, I've replaced, AC compressor, PS pump, Water pump. Idler, crossover pipe, fan clutch, plugs/plug wires (WTF thought of that design idea?). As I said, it's getting close to 200K miles on it, and it sounds to me like there may be some bearing knocking going on at slow speed, (15-20mph) low rpm. I've toyed with the idea of getting another 2.2 lump and bench building it, and having it on standby or just plug it in some weekend. It's faint, and she hasn't commented on it, I only hear it with the window down, and the radio off, by myself in the truck.

That's when the DAMN I HATE THIS BERKELEYING MOTOR! side comes out of me. This thing is PAINFULLY slow, but averaging 27/28 mpg in a small truck is hard to argue with. It moves out, but just don't be in a hurry. Will a 2.2 ecotec bolt up? Is there a modern replacement for this archaic thing? Does the vortec 2800/2900 bolt up? Anyone have an idea on how tough the swap would be? I'm wanting a power and torque increase without a big hit to economy, if it happens to increase the economy all the better.

I've thought of adding boost, but this thing is my wife's truck, not mine. She enjoys it, know's it's not fast, knows it's dinged up, but it's hers and she likes it. So NO LSX SWAPS!

What say GRM?

I think this one is a GM metric bolt pattern. It showed up on the 60 degree V6 and Buick 3.8 V6, and you can get a Northstar to bolt to it. The 60 degree V6 was a stock option in many S10s, so it may not be too hard.

But as for four bangers, I think you've got the most modern one they put behind it. There's also the Iron Duke and the AMC / Jeep 2.5, but that's about all that fits this bolt pattern and has four cylinders. Ecotecs have a different pattern.

The 2800 / 2900 uses an older small block bolt pattern, so it can bolt to a 4L60-E... just not the one you have. I suspect the LSx swap would be easier than a Vortec 2800, as there's more documentation and off the shelf parts.

Sadly a LSx swap is out of the question for this one.

Man, those 2.2/4l60 trucks are damn near intolerable. Some of the slowest 'normal' cars ive ever driven.

So why is a turbo not wife-appropriate? Turbo setups tend to be really reliable when not driven by enthusiasts.

I had the 2.2 tractor engine in a sunfire, UNKILLABLE, they make all sorts of racket no matter what, I 10w40 in mine for that reason. These engines also have timing chain issues, that will give rattle noises and make them really down on power.

Vigo wrote: Man, those 2.2/4l60 trucks are damn near intolerable. Some of the slowest 'normal' cars ive ever driven. So why is a turbo not wife-appropriate? Turbo setups tend to be really reliable when not driven by enthusiasts.

Most Manifolds require the removal of the AC system to fit(not to mention those with them think they are made of gold or something), After a year of hearing her complain about not having AC, I'm not gonna listen/be on the recieving end of intentionally removing the AC. The problem resides in the fact that the steering column, exhaust manifold, waterpump, and AC compressor all vie for the same side of the engine. I could fab something but without a truck to test fit/fab with, she would be without, or I would be removing and reinstalling a manifold every time I went to work on it.... Get the picture?

Hunting through copart I've found a few 2.9 trucks that are under 100k that have salvage titles. That may be the way to go. just swap harness, ecm/pcm, motor and trans, if I have to run it back to the lights, so be it.

The Sonoma 2.2 (called the Vortec 2200) is this engine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_122_engine

It uses a "GM Metric" bolt pattern:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_bellhousing_patterns#GM_metric_pattern

This is what the 4L60e looks like in your truck:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/72K-MILE-4L60E-2-2-4-CYLINDER-AUTOMATIC-AUTO-TRANSMISSION-CHEVY-S10-TRUCK-SONOMA-/221312593604#ht_1854wt_1362

Notice that the bellhousing bolts on to the main transmission housing. The 4L60e came on these vehicles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4L60_transmission#700R4_.2F_4L60_.2F_4L60E_.2F_4L65E_Applications

The only improved 4 cylinder engines (Ecotec, etc.) that GM offered were typically mated to 5+ speed automagics in longitudinal format. I'm not aware of any bellhousing for the 4L60e that would mate to an Ecotec. You could go the Atlas 2900 route if you specifically want a 4 cylinder, but beware that it's definitely not a bolt-in deal.

Bryce

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/4l60e.htm

Interesting reading about the 4l60

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I had the 2.2 tractor engine in a sunfire, UNKILLABLE, they make all sorts of racket no matter what, I 10w40 in mine for that reason. These engines also have timing chain issues, that will give rattle noises and make them really down on power.

I'm wondering if a timing chain tensioner or something maybe causing some of my noise.

Jeep 2.5 is the biggest, and there may be an OHC head that would swap onto your block and maybe let you build a motor with slightly more potential the. Pushrod one you have now.

A Camaro 3800 ecm would let a Fwd 3800 work with your transmission. Supposedly the FWD ecu can even be made to work your transmission too, and if you figured that out then the 3400/3500 series motors might go in with 2.8l mounts and such.

Any chance you have a new enough 4l60e that the bell housing is removable? Then maybe solstice parts would let you get an ecotec in or you could use Colorado parts for an Atlas.

oldopelguy wrote: Any chance you have a new enough 4l60e that the bell housing is removable? Then maybe solstice parts would let you get an ecotec in or you could use Colorado parts for an Atlas.

Trying to stay with a 4cyl, so the 3800 a very nice motor, is out for the time being. SUPPOSIDLY GM went to the removable bell housing ~97, if so I'm good like that, Bell housing, converter, put em together, and it's a bolt in affair. If I'm reading the stuff on the 28/2900 correctly they're drive by wire, this may be a huge pain in arse.

a 5.3 out of an Impala/Monte Carlo bolts to that bellhousing.. it's like getting a pair of 4 cylinders,which is twice as good..

and i all but guarantee that you'll get over 30mpg when you drive it nice.

What are your reasons for retaining the four cylinder? Economy? Ease of swapping? Or what?

Economy is the biggest thing. She travels all over the eastern seaboard with this truck. It does ALOT of road tripping.

EDIT:

Also when looking at pictures of the 28/2900 motors, the coolant passages are all in the right places for the new(last year) radiator. The alternator is moved across the engine bay, and AC compressor down, but still on the same side of the motor. There are SOME ease of swapping concerns there. V8's nickel and dime you to death. TRYING to avoid it while giving myself almost an 80% boost in power/torque.

While we're on it, can megasquirt control VVT?

If it were my truck, I'd just get another 2.2 and do a bench build with a little more compression, mild cam, 1.6 rockers, and a header if you can get it.

Zomby, that may be how this ends up.

My own extended cab 2.2L 2002 S10 is a 5-speed is getting a 4.8l and staying a 5-speed. I'm hoping for not a terrible hit on mpg, but I certainly understand the costs piling up.

I still think about a turbocharged 3800 with a 5-speed though.

Spinout007 wrote: While we're on it, can megasquirt control VVT?

MS3 can run continuously variable valve timing; MS1 and MS2 can only handle on/off.

I'm assuming you Floridians don't have OBD-II emissions...

2.2 has the FWD bolt pattern including the left-side starter pocket. More or less EVERYTHING that was transversely mounted will bolt to the trans.

Except Quad 4 or Ecotec, those are both different.

SlickDizzy wrote: I'm assuming you Floridians don't have OBD-II emissions...

Negative sir. One of teg reasons I'm considering a complete engine, trans, harness swap.

I did not know the removable bellhousing went all the way back to 96-97. I thought it was roughly '00. That makes things a lot easier for potential swaps, although i sort of agree with Woody that i would just fix it with mild upgrades on the existing motor.

Spinout007 wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I had the 2.2 tractor engine in a sunfire, UNKILLABLE, they make all sorts of racket no matter what, I 10w40 in mine for that reason. These engines also have timing chain issues, that will give rattle noises and make them really down on power.

I'm wondering if a timing chain tensioner or something maybe causing some of my noise.

Mine rattled like a diesel at idle and wouldn't climb a hill in 5th below 60mph when I got it at 160k. If it had one put in prior to you owning it, its possible its on its way out of it wasn't a good kit or incorrectly installed(there's an oil squirter you have to clean out, the nice kit comes with a new plug with a bigger hole IIRC). I ran mine to redline multiple times every day for a couple years, often not all that warmed up, it started losing power at 190k, probably wore out the cheap timing set I used. It didn't burn oil or anything. So put a tach on it and shift it at 6k when you need power, if it has the stupid little "shift" light IIRC it lights up when you hit redline.

A few things to note:

The 98-up head is a FastBurn style with also higher comp ratio. The head is also a throwback to the old big block heads, as that is where the design started from.

There is also 2 different DIS cranks. (We wont talk about the 2.0 variation of this engine, as it is a carb engine) The timing marks are set at different degrees.

These have what is called the 60º bellhousing pattern and really opens up engine choices, even the ECOtec and Quad4/Twincam engines now have adapter plates made for them. There is a ECOtec S10 out there, its on YouTube. And lets not forget about the Olds Aurora 4.0 V8. Wasn't there a flat crank made for them through GMPP?

i'd rather have a poorly tuned gutless 4 cylinder than a perfectly tuned Aurora/Northstar V8..