What are some '74 and older cars that were solidly put-together and decent to drive?

aircooled said:

MotorsportsGordon said:

 

is that a 110 hp engine currently in the car. Back in the day it was not uncommon for people to close up the secondary carbs on the 140 engines.

 

That's not normally necessary, they will close themselves up eventually   (if not used, the butterflies will glue shut from sludge)

Corvair is certainly an economic choice for a good looking old car that rides WAY better then most cars of the day.  They DO have their quirks though, and a good engine rebuild will be more then most V8s.  Be wary of nicely painted ones.... they can hide some horrors (since the cars have little resale value, short cutting is common).

I would say the old Benz's are good choice also, especially the diesels (if you are not at all into power... not at all.)

A big deal for most is AC.  Most want it, and it does through a wrench into the works for many of the cars mentioned (hard to find with AC)

John fitch said running 4 primaries not only gave better performance but also had improved reliability and better mpg. The real sweet setup through on a 140 engine is a pair of 3 barrel Weber’s. That requires a bunch of machine work to the the heads so they fit.

as far as those wanting ac I think your best friend wou,d be the good old American land yacts. Especially if it’s a convertible.

I run primaries as my secondary carbs (the difference being they have idle circuits).  Works great to keep the secondaries clean, but does present a bit of a high idle issue.

Triple Weber are great, but they are Weber’s and can be a huge tuning pain.  FI (including using the triple barrel substitution style) is of course the most effective way to go now.

Don't want to sidetrack...

loosecannon said:

In reply to Dootz :

I don't know much about the Super Beetles, I've only had Beetles and prefer the flat windshield of the Beetle. My hardcore Beetle friends say to stay away from 67 Beetles because it's an oddball year and certain things are unique to that year. Personally, It's all about the headlight/taillights and IMHO the Pre 1967 headlights/taillights are the prettiest. 

I would stay away from 68s too. The automatic bugs had the later IRS rear suspension, the manuals got the Swing Axle with a weird Z bar compensator.

I personally prefer the super beetles. The curved windshield opens up a lot of space in the interior and the strut suspension makes the frunk actually usable

Beware strut tower rust on Super Beetles!

Beetles are fun drivers.  Good in snow too!

I am not sure why the 67 bug is considered strange, I had one, and I think they are one of the better years (last year of metal dash, first of 12v, pop out side rear windows, last in-trunk gas filler, might have high back seats).  Nothing unique that I remember.  The z-bar was a 67 thing also, a total non-issue and should help prevent axle tuck.

I am pretty sure the 68 is the one with the strange electrical box that was an issue.

69 is the first year of the IRS and still has smallish tail lights (but did add side markers to the tail lights)

66 are generally considered the most desirable of the later bugs because of the headlights, but will command a bit more price because of that.

Here is a list of the changes through the years:

http://www.vw-resource.com/years.html

(obviously not comprehensive since I do not see anything about the high back seats which I THINK started in 67)

Just a tip, the the Corvair Trader Facebook group periodically has some raging deals. They might be a long ways away, but they are better than anything that comes up in my local Craigslist.

In reply to alfadriver :

So here's the problem friend - yes, California's smog problem has been terrible previously and the current CARB rules help with that.

The issue lies in that you cannot modify your car at all for non-OEM parts, even if they pass the tailpipe/sniffer test. That is correct - even if you have car modified to emit legal numbers, you won't get the smog certification. Why? Because they require you to have the stupid CARB sticker on any part, raising the price up on said parts due to testing costs for CARB (by those manufacturers). It's a BS money-grab

yupididit said:

Carbon said:

1st gen celicas are awesome cars. They drive like a 90s cars aside from no powersteering option. 

Man I've only ever found rust buckets in this price range

I bought (and sold)mine for less than five. It wasnt a rust bucket but it had a bubble in two places. 

Dootz said:

loosecannon, what's the best year for the Super Beetle? Seems like I should pick from 1970-1974.

I'm also looking into Toyotas now (keeping an eye on Super Beetles), and I came across these four cars;

• A20 Celica
• E10 Corolla
• E20 Corolla
• T40/T50 Corona
• T80/T90 Corona
• T60/T70 Corona Mark II
• X10/X20 Corona Mark II

How different are each of these to drive?

Can't speak for the others, but I"ve driven an E20 Corolla and that thing was miserably slow and unresponsive. The buddy who had bought it to turn into a fun project sold it really fast when he realized how much he hated the way it drove.

I've owned two Volvo 140s, a 144 rally car and a 142E and they are indeed nice cars. My 142 even had working A/C. They ride beautifully and the handling is solid. IPD has sway bars for them as well as other suspension goodies. Really can't go wrong with a 140.

My first car was a baja bug and I enjoyed it very much, loads of fun but I live in place were I can be out romping in the desert within 10 minutes. The lack of A/C is a bit of an issue.

Celicas are a good pick as well.

If you can find Datsun 1200 (totally non objective selection) they are loads of fun. In stock trim they are rather dull but you can buy sway bars and decent dampers for them, additionally you can install a 1.6 or 2.0 motor from a truck which given their 1600lb weight will make it scoot nicely. The  Datsun1200.com website has tons of information. Parts availability is good as the drivetrain was used by Nissan until 2007.

I've owned two Plymouth Valiants and while I think they are very good cars I never found them to be fabulous to drive.

A nice clean Mercedes, while not ever going to be a sports car, will be a very nice place to commute and go for drives.

I test drove a nicely put together Datsun 1200 (though with a stock engine) decades ago. Even in the 1980s that thing was a dog. Pretty car, just no power and not enough fun to be a cool momentum toy like a Spridget or Fiat 850.

Dootz said:

In reply to alfadriver :

So here's the problem friend - yes, California's smog problem has been terrible previously and the current CARB rules help with that.

The issue lies in that you cannot modify your car at all for non-OEM parts, even if they pass the tailpipe/sniffer test. That is correct - even if you have car modified to emit legal numbers, you won't get the smog certification. Why? Because they require you to have the stupid CARB sticker on any part, raising the price up on said parts due to testing costs for CARB (by those manufacturers). It's a BS money-grab

It's not a money grab.  Companies actually prove that their parts either don't effect or improve the emissions,  and that's not free.  CARB gets very little for this, but the companies that do make parts that are compliant get rewarded for their effort.  As to the rest of the state of California.

And you can modify the car- look at what Flyin Miata puts out- you can get a CARB approved turbo kit for a Miata.  Very much non OEM part, and a significant power improvement.  You can find CARB heads for Fox Mustangs, I'd bet you can get a CARB crate engine for a Camaro.  I'm sure there are plenty of JDM marketers who also have CARB compliant power parts.

My greater point is that you are selecting years that are 1) hard to find, 2) not all that powerful, and 3) not nearly as reliable as later cars.  We have this fond memory of old cars, but forget how much work was put into them to keep running reasonably well.  In theory, I could daily drive my '73 GTV, but I never really would because it's not nearly as good of a car as a later Miata.  Given how much more interesting it is to race and drive fast- I spent many years autocrossing and tracking the Alfa, but as a DD, the Miata is so much a better car, that I was better off having both.

There is plenty of legal aftermarkets for many cars out there.  Why restrict your search to rare cars that may require restoration?  

alfadriver said:

Dootz said:

In reply to alfadriver :

So here's the problem friend - yes, California's smog problem has been terrible previously and the current CARB rules help with that.

The issue lies in that you cannot modify your car at all for non-OEM parts, even if they pass the tailpipe/sniffer test. That is correct - even if you have car modified to emit legal numbers, you won't get the smog certification. Why? Because they require you to have the stupid CARB sticker on any part, raising the price up on said parts due to testing costs for CARB (by those manufacturers). It's a BS money-grab

It's not a money grab.  Companies actually prove that their parts either don't effect or improve the emissions,  and that's not free.  CARB gets very little for this, but the companies that do make parts that are compliant get rewarded for their effort.  As to the rest of the state of California.

And you can modify the car- look at what Flyin Miata puts out- you can get a CARB approved turbo kit for a Miata.  Very much non OEM part, and a significant power improvement.  You can find CARB heads for Fox Mustangs, I'd bet you can get a CARB crate engine for a Camaro.  I'm sure there are plenty of JDM marketers who also have CARB compliant power parts.

My greater point is that you are selecting years that are 1) hard to find, 2) not all that powerful, and 3) not nearly as reliable as later cars.  We have this fond memory of old cars, but forget how much work was put into them to keep running reasonably well.  In theory, I could daily drive my '73 GTV, but I never really would because it's not nearly as good of a car as a later Miata.  Given how much more interesting it is to race and drive fast- I spent many years autocrossing and tracking the Alfa, but as a DD, the Miata is so much a better car, that I was better off having both.

There is plenty of legal aftermarkets for many cars out there.  Why restrict your search to rare cars that may require restoration?  

You make some very good points. I’ve made my MGTD very reliable through regular repairs and learning from others in the club.  But it would still need weekly attention if used as a daily driver.  

A very nice pickup I had in the late 1960’s I thought was wonderfully reliable.  Yet at least twice a month I worked on it.  

My new pickup will likely go well over 100,000 miles before anything other than regular  service will be called for.  

Cars from the 50’s required work every week, cars from the 70’s& 80 required it every month. Today?  Years sometimes.  

Is it worth it?  I suppose it depends on what your free time is worth.  It’s not the fun stuff we all like to do, it’s replacing a water pump late at night to get to work the next day.  It’s adjusting drum brakes because the pedal is too low to safely stop. Or resetting the dwell on a set of points followed by resetting  the timing.  Dealing with stuck choke on the carburetor or replacing the clutch on the weekend instead of going to the beach.  

@ ddavidv that 1200 must have had a tired engine or not been tuned well (they like a lot of ignition advance) because the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for 1200 and a Spridget are nearly identical. A 1200 is actually faster than a Fiat 850.......not that you could tell the difference, all three cars are pretty slow in stock trim.

I think Datsun roadsters can still be had within the 5k budget, obviously not pristine ones.

alfadriver said:

Dootz said:

In reply to alfadriver :

So here's the problem friend - yes, California's smog problem has been terrible previously and the current CARB rules help with that.

The issue lies in that you cannot modify your car at all for non-OEM parts, even if they pass the tailpipe/sniffer test. That is correct - even if you have car modified to emit legal numbers, you won't get the smog certification. Why? Because they require you to have the stupid CARB sticker on any part, raising the price up on said parts due to testing costs for CARB (by those manufacturers). It's a BS money-grab

It's not a money grab.  Companies actually prove that their parts either don't effect or improve the emissions,  and that's not free.  CARB gets very little for this, but the companies that do make parts that are compliant get rewarded for their effort.  As to the rest of the state of California.

And you can modify the car- look at what Flyin Miata puts out- you can get a CARB approved turbo kit for a Miata.  Very much non OEM part, and a significant power improvement.  You can find CARB heads for Fox Mustangs, I'd bet you can get a CARB crate engine for a Camaro.  I'm sure there are plenty of JDM marketers who also have CARB compliant power parts.

My greater point is that you are selecting years that are 1) hard to find, 2) not all that powerful, and 3) not nearly as reliable as later cars.  We have this fond memory of old cars, but forget how much work was put into them to keep running reasonably well.  In theory, I could daily drive my '73 GTV, but I never really would because it's not nearly as good of a car as a later Miata.  Given how much more interesting it is to race and drive fast- I spent many years autocrossing and tracking the Alfa, but as a DD, the Miata is so much a better car, that I was better off having both.

There is plenty of legal aftermarkets for many cars out there.  Why restrict your search to rare cars that may require restoration?  

I'm looking for '75 and older cars so I can modify freely and/or engine swap without having to be deal with pain-in-the-ass regulations and smog referees. Compare CARB parts to equivalent parts that are 49-state legal. The extra cost is a goddamn joke.

Please don't bother responding if your answer is the Miata circlejerk.

In reply to Dootz :

Buy a diesel, that frees you up to 97 and opens you up to lots of 80s awesomeness.

In reply to Dootz :

LOL.  Go for it, then.  Good luck.