What Benz?

In reply to G_Body_Man:

You could just not buy a Mercedes...choosing a W210 at 16 years old because it's the least bad mid-size luxury car in your price range just seems like a recipe for disaster. Trust me, I've been there, and it blew up in my face a number of times. You are going to make up that $2k difference between it and the BMW very quickly the first time something big goes wrong, believe me...

It took me about six years to learn how to work on European cars with the meticulousness (and, uh cubic dollars) they require. I spent and lost a lot of time and money before, during, and after that messing with Euro cars. At 16, coming out of a GM G-body, you will REALLY be flying close to the sun with any 90's-up Euro import, let alone something as flawed as a W210. I don't know what your income situation is but you have to look at the costs of these things beyond the initial purchase, and keep in mind unexpected things can and will go wrong. BMW, Saab and Volvo were the best to me but even they got expensive fast.

This is why I now drive a Honda Fit after 9 years of driving European cars.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to G_Body_Man: You could just not buy a Mercedes...choosing a W210 at 16 years old because it's the least bad mid-size luxury car in your price range just seems like a recipe for disaster. Trust me, I've been there, and it blew up in my face a number of times. You are going to make up that $2k difference between it and the BMW very quickly the first time something big goes wrong, believe me... It took me about six years to learn how to work on German cars with the meticulousness (and, uh cubic dollars) they require. I spent and lost a lot of time and money before, during, and after that time. At 16, coming out of a GM G-body, you will REALLY be flying close to the sun with any 90's-up Euro import, let alone something as flawed as a W210.

Well, Honda isn't especially known for their high quality automatic transmissions, nor is Toyota for sludge-free engines. An early 2000s Maxima would be decent, but all of them in my area are either a bit ragged, or high mileage. I don't like any of Detroit's mainstream mid-size sedans, and northstars are a bit problematic. I need a mid-size because my dad may have to use it occasionally, and he's 6'1" and all torso. As it sits, my options are a bit limited. I'm choosing between the lesser of two evils. Plus, he doesn't like BMWs.

In reply to G_Body_Man:

Cherry picking your vehicle problems much? Sounds like you've sold yourself so hard on the W210 you are mentally blowing other cars' issues out of proportion, considering how many problems Mercedes' of that era have...I'll tell you one thing, there are a hell of a lot more high mile Toyota Avalons, Acura TL/RLs, Lexus GS/LS, Nissan Maximas, Infiniti Q45s, BMW 5-series, and - I hate to say it - Audi A6s out there. I even see more LH-body Chryslers like the 300M and Concorde running around than W210s, and that says a LOT!

Clearly you are on the Benz train and all that entails, I just cannot comprehend why it has to be the W210 of all of them. I guess you are just gonna have to learn some lessons the hard way, just like I did when I was younger. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

In reply to G_Body_Man:

If you think Toyota sludge problems and Honda automatics (IIRC it was only one automatic, but whatever) are a big deal, you'll be in for a rude awakening for anything German that isn't a old VW.

Yeah, I thought the only Honda automatic that ever had an issue was in the second-gen Odyssey. Never heard a single bad thing about the rest.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to G_Body_Man: Cherry picking your vehicle problems much? Sounds like you've sold yourself so hard on the W210 you are mentally blowing other cars' issues out of proportion, considering how many problems Mercedes' of that era have...I'll tell you one thing, there are a hell of a lot more high mile Toyota Avalons, Acura TL/RLs, Lexus GS/LS, Nissan Maximas, Infiniti Q45s, BMW 5-series, and - I hate to say it - Audi A6s out there. I even see more LH-body Chryslers like the 300M and Concorde running around than W210s, and that says a LOT!

The Avalons weren't very good until 2004, at least in my opinion. There are no Q45s for sale where I live, or good condition Lexuses, or RLs. The only early-00s TL in a two hour radius from me is $7900. All the E39s around me are 540i models, which are too thirsty for me. It's basically a W210 or an Accord for the same money. And as much as I like the 6th gen Accord, I like the W210 more, even though it's less reliable.

pointofdeparture wrote: Yeah, I thought the only Honda automatic that ever had an issue was in the second-gen Odyssey. Never heard a single bad thing about the rest.

IIRC, it also affected Accords and Acuras.

Buy a southwest car for $3000. If it's over 15 yrs old then you're okay in Canada, right?

The w210 isn't a good choice over the japanese alternatives or other european alternatives.

I remember when I was 16 and I didn't want to listen to E36 M3 anyone had to say. When my mind was made, that was it! Good luck kid!

yupididit wrote: Buy a southwest car for $3000. If it's over 15 yrs old then you're okay in Canada, right? The w210 isn't a good choice over the japanese alternatives or other european alternatives. I remember when I was 16 and I didn't want to listen to E36 M3 anyone had to say. When my mind was made, that was it! Good luck kid!

I'd love a southwest car, but the Canadian dollar has E36 M3 the bed. My best bet would be to find a really clean example of whatever. Basically, it's this or a V6 Accord of similar vintage. As much as I like the 6th gen Accord, its merely a mediocre drive.

Get the V6 Accord.

W124 Estate please

In reply to yupididit:

I see lots of replacement fuses, but nothing that promises a "fix." Can you offer any detail on that?

Thanks!

The only Merc I can really recommend is the one with a warranty.

If money is tight enough that $5k is your budget, I'd try and pick the most reliable car, with the lowest operating costs that you can. Otherwise, you run the risk of your fancy car becoming your fancy lawn ornament.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to G_Body_Man: Cherry picking your vehicle problems much? Sounds like you've sold yourself so hard on the W210 you are mentally blowing other cars' issues out of proportion, considering how many problems Mercedes' of that era have...I'll tell you one thing, there are a hell of a lot more high mile Toyota Avalons, Acura TL/RLs, Lexus GS/LS, Nissan Maximas, Infiniti Q45s, BMW 5-series, and - I hate to say it - Audi A6s out there. I even see more LH-body Chryslers like the 300M and Concorde running around than W210s, and that says a LOT! Clearly you are on the Benz train and all that entails, I just cannot comprehend why it has to be the W210 of all of them. I guess you are just gonna have to learn some lessons the hard way, just like I did when I was younger. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But as is always the case with anecdotal evidence, your mileage may vary. Obviously I never saw any 300Ms or Concordes in Germany, but I also almost never saw any 5 or 7 series BMWs. I cannot stress enough just how prolific the W210 still is in Germany.

I work at a parts store, so I did some pricing of parts for a 2002 W210 E320 and a 2002 Honda Accord 3.0, and on many wear items, prices were pretty comparable. Unless you need a radiator for a W210. Those look to be pretty pricey. "BUT NIXON, THOSE ARE CHEAP CHINESE PARTS" Sure, but my point remains the same, part for part.

Having said that, and to be quite frank, I think that a W210 might be too much car for you to tackle right now. I say this given what happened with your Cutlass. I am not saying that you are incapable, just that you may need something a bit simpler to work on first. You could be like others, taking the car to a shop every time it has a quibble, but costs would get out of hand quickly. Choose wisely. If you go the W210 route, make sure you have a DEPENDABLE friend to help you work on it, preferably one with some more experience working on cars. Get an FSM, and lurk on marque-specific boards.

Whatever you do, good luck.

In reply to Esoteric Nixon:

I feel like comparing OEM to OEM parts costs would be much more fair, given that the only actual W210 owners in this thread have said it's basically OEM or nothing on them.

I agree with your advice though, and that is what I'm trying to get through to him. German cars in general, let alone newer Benzes, are many orders of magnitude more needy and complicated than the average car. Going from a G-body to a W210 does not seem wise for a 16-year old still learning the ropes; it took me most of a decade to learn to work on Euro imports properly, and then having the "real job" income to keep one going is another issue entirely.

pointofdeparture wrote: Going from a G-body to a W210 does not seem wise for a 16-year old still learning the ropes;

Truth spoken here. It's tough advice to swallow, but no less true.

I will offer this only as an answer to one of the original questions: what fails on a W210?

The valve that regulates hot coolant flow to the heater core (typically called a duo-valve) likes to fail sometimes. It is super simple to repair. Its right under the bonnet on top of everything. The downside is that it is expensive.

Lots of things in the car are vacuum operated. There is a vacuum manifold behind the dash that controls it all. If it fails, you will lose power locks, heater/temp control, and a few other things. It isn't expensive, but it really requires a pretty extensive dash disassembly to get to it.

The lower radiator support is made from tinfoil. If you tap a parking curb with it or whack a raccoon on the road, the bottom of the radiator can push backward allowing the fan to shred it. From what I understand, not all engines used a mechanical fan in W210s. If you have a mechanical fan, brace the lower rad support with some steel. I bolted some light channel under the rad support and then also put some steel bar from the rad support back to the engine cradle. Problem solved. But I went through three radiators and two fan blades before figuring it out. Oh... and ditch the fan shroud. Make sure your temps are OK, but the fan shroud can vibrate off. When it does, it can get behind a fan blade and flex the blade into the radiator.

My W210 came from Arizona and I used it in CA and TX, so I had zero rust issues, but I have heard stories that confirm rust is an issue in salt areas.

Would I own another one? In a heartbeat. It was the last "tank" they made. Decidedly less reliable than earlier models, but light years ahead of newer ones. Mine had 68k when I bought it, 207k when I sold it, and (aside from the radiators) had zero issues. I never even had to replace a headlight bulb. I think I was starting to have the vacuum problem when it sold because I heard a tell-tale intermittent hiss behind the radio, but everything still worked.

And... I have to post these pictures. The quality of materials on the interior is just amazing. Light tan leather and tan carpet after 207k still looking like this? I was impressed.

I guess I've been unclear in what I need. After the Cutlass fiasco, I'm done with an insane project, at least until I have money, time and brains. A window regulator here and a bit of welding there is no problem. Replacing a fairly large section of frame? Problem. I just want an interesting car that I can fix the odd gremlin on and simply drive. Maybe listen to some music in, but otherwise just be comfortable with. Plus, as my dad will be driving it occasionally, and hr has only had base-model econoboxes, I want something to treat him with, even if its at my own expense.

My dad had a W210 for a while. It was a 60k mile total creampuff when he bought it - owned by an older gentleman who apparently also had a Bentley, religiously dealer maintained from day 1, ect. Dad kept it for about 3 years before "old Euro car syndrome" finally overwhelmed it, as there was constantly something needing attention on it and German nickels and dimes apparently convert to cubic dollars in North America. FWIW, I was never particularly impressed with it.

What about a Volvo 850? I had one at 16, and another at 19 or 20, that both worked out OK for me. Pretty comparable in size to a W210, they DO NOT rust (my 2nd one had a paint chip down to bare metal the size of a half dollar on the QP that never rusted through 3 upstate NY winters), piss cheap to buy, not too hard to work on, and they tend to keep running reasonably well even when things aren't 100% OK. Also, you can make pretty good power out of the Turbos for very little money and the seats are excellent. Downside is parts are probably comparable to Merc prices.

In reply to G_Body_Man:

Can you elaborate on the Cutlass fiasco, for those of us not in the know?

Furious_E wrote: In reply to G_Body_Man: Can you elaborate on the Cutlass fiasco, for those of us not in the know?

Basically, the left rear part of the frame was almost completely rotten away. Couple that to serious body rust and some leaks and issues that developed, and it would have cost 3x the value of the car to fix. As cars are plentiful, I ended up walking away simply because it was a little too ambitious for me.

E55 AMG Wagon

Furious_E wrote: My dad had a W210 for a while. It was a 60k mile total creampuff when he bought it - owned by an older gentleman who apparently also had a Bentley, religiously dealer maintained from day 1, ect. Dad kept it for about 3 years before "old Euro car syndrome" finally overwhelmed it, as there was constantly something needing attention on it and German nickels and dimes apparently convert to cubic dollars in North America. FWIW, I was never particularly impressed with it. What about a Volvo 850? I had one at 16, and another at 19 or 20, that both worked out OK for me. Pretty comparable in size to a W210, they DO NOT rust (my 2nd one had a paint chip down to bare metal the size of a half dollar on the QP that never rusted through 3 upstate NY winters), piss cheap to buy, not too hard to work on, and they tend to keep running reasonably well even when things aren't 100% OK. Also, you can make pretty good power out of the Turbos for very little money and the seats are excellent. Downside is parts are probably comparable to Merc prices.

The downside to Volvos is that they are difficult to diagnose, in terms of electrical problems.

Didn't catch your budget, but shameless plug - I have a w211 I need to sell. 75k miles in really nice shape

In reply to G_Body_Man:

I have owned three Volvos and never once have I had a difficult-to-diagnose electrical problem. That was an issue on early 80's 240s, but my 740 turbo, 960 and 850R were all rock solid.

Also, that statement implies a Benz electrical problem is easy to diagnose by comparison.