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AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Reader
10/16/16 3:16 p.m.

The autocross season has come to an end. After carefully considering the results I have concluded what will come as no surprise to anyone. Despite being a lot of fun and finishing 7th of 58 cars in class, the W-body just isn't competitive enough to continue racing.

That being said I have about 5-6 months to buy and prep a new autocross car. On a budget.I'm the sort of guy who doesn't finance anything and never uses credit cards. Everything I have I paid cash for and I own it. This tends to limit options somewhat.

I'm basically looking at a challenge budget for the car, then probably that again over time to get it race ready. I looked at the types of cars that I thought might be competitive and affordable and kept coming back to the answer. The Miata. But that answer is only the answer if you don't have any imagination.

Then I spotted a big glaring loophole in the rules. CAM-T (Classic American Muscle-Traditional) This would allow me to run a muscle car in a class against only other muscles cars. In my region it is a soft class, with only a handful of cars and even if I lose, I got to do it in a big angry muscle car instead of some run-of-the-mill miata. It's settled.

The rules are pretty simple: 1954-1989 front engined, rear wheel drive, full interior, couple other minor technical details. Other than that... go for it.

So I laid out all my possibilities then began crossing things off the list. I want it to be cheap so Mopar and AMC are out. I also want it to be not a piece of crap, so ford is out too. I'm not made of money and would like to avoid rust if possible, so I axed everything pre-'72. That narrowed the pool down quite a bit, leaving me with the H-body (vega monza) the 2nd and 3rd gen F body (camarobird) and the G-body (malibu, regal, el camino ect)

I have at one point owned each of these. The 2nd gen camaro is the coolest but features a heftier price tag and leaf sprung rear, so that's out. the 3rd gen is newest (a loophole in rules allows for up to '93's to run) and likely has the largest aftermarket, but I find them to be miata like in their un-interesting-ness.

The monza is the lightest and is my my favorite, but is also the rarest and offers the smallest aftermarket.

That leaves the G-body. parts are shared across umpteen platforms and they made precisely all of them. CL browsing has found several candidates in my price range and they should have an aftermarket almost as healthy as the F-body. That aftermarket should cater to circle track as well as drag.

Because I'm stupid and would rather have an interesting car that's sort of fast than a boring one that's really fast, also because I've owned one before my pick is this:

That was my old Caballero, and I loved it very much. I think an autocrossing coupe-utility could be just the ticket for a few season's worth of budget fun.

What are your opinions? what am I overlooking? Can I have $5? What car would you choose?

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 3:22 p.m.

G-body actually makes a lot of sense from a cheap parts availability standpoint. Without reading the rules, you could throw half a circle track catalog at the right side of the car and then throw the same half on the left side.

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Reader
10/16/16 3:24 p.m.

I pretty much summed them up, but here you go:

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/010/078/2016_CAM_handout_-_Rules_Final.pdf?1446494308

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
10/16/16 3:25 p.m.

S10 is essentially a leaf spring gbody. But I'd vote 80s El Camino. Just because elkys rock. But I'm kind of partial....

chada75
chada75 Reader
10/16/16 3:30 p.m.

Same for the El Camino.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
10/16/16 3:33 p.m.

I'm not sure of the rules but could the answer be a '89 Jeep XJ, 2wd with 4.0L and a 5 speed manual?
In the rules can you add a turbo?

patgizz
patgizz GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
10/16/16 3:35 p.m.

From a better starting point i'd try to find a 3rd gen. From a cool starting point elky.

Furious_E
Furious_E GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/16/16 3:39 p.m.

In reply to Knurled:

CAM rules are pretty much run what ya brung, so long as it's front engine, rwd, and 'Merican and not totally turned into a race car. Engine and suspension are totally open.

Locally, we have a couple 2nd gen Camaros that usually fight each other for the win in CAM-T, but I've seen g bodies come out and be very competitive as well. I'd think an El Camino would be at a disadvantage in weight distribution compared to its platform mates, so that is something to consider. If that doesn't matter to you, the S10 might be something to consider as well - cheaper than an El Camino and runs narrowed g body front suspension.

drdisque
drdisque HalfDork
10/16/16 3:45 p.m.

I would heavily recommend against running anything body-on-frame if you can. They're heavy and you have to spend some serious money to get the rear suspension geometry acceptable for autocross.

The easy button is fox body or 3rd gen F-body.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 3:45 p.m.
AClockworkGarage wrote: I pretty much summed them up, but here you go: https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/010/078/2016_CAM_handout_-_Rules_Final.pdf?1446494308

I'd heard that the rules were pretty loose for autocross, but that is some seriously loose ruleset. Must have interior as seen through windows (no headliner is OK), must not be center-seat or rear seat, no body aero that extends outside the perimeter of the car (not counting bumpers), but beyond that anything goes???

Looks like a fun party. I wonder how long it'll be before someone ruins it.

Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
10/16/16 3:55 p.m.
drdisque wrote: I would heavily recommend against running anything body-on-frame if you can. They're heavy and you have to spend some serious money to get the rear suspension geometry acceptable for autocross. The easy button is fox body or 3rd gen F-body.

Depending on options and engines of course, the G-body and third gen F-body weigh practically the same. Somewhere between 3,300 and 3,600 pounds.

scottdownsouth
scottdownsouth Reader
10/16/16 3:55 p.m.

El CAMINO ? Your crazy ! AND I like crazy

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
10/16/16 3:57 p.m.
Knurled wrote: Looks like a fun party. I wonder how long it'll be before someone ruins it.

When the SCCA finally succumbs to pressure and makes it a Nationals "jacket" class (unless they did this year... I haven't been paying attention). Or they give it a really soft PAX. That said, it's so wide-open now and there is such a huge disparity in prep levels at local events, maybe nobody will care.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/16/16 4:01 p.m.

H Body ... Nothing else to say.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 4:30 p.m.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote:
drdisque wrote: I would heavily recommend against running anything body-on-frame if you can. They're heavy and you have to spend some serious money to get the rear suspension geometry acceptable for autocross. The easy button is fox body or 3rd gen F-body.
Depending on options and engines of course, the G-body and third gen F-body weigh practically the same. Somewhere between 3,300 and 3,600 pounds.

F-body has a much better rear suspension, I think.

A lot less cool factor, though. And what the heck, how is a unibody 2+2 with struts the same weight as a larger body-on-frame sedan??

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Reader
10/16/16 4:56 p.m.

internetting shows 3rd gens ranging from 3,000-3300lbs, Elkys fall in at 3200.

My Current '01 Grand Prix weighs more than that...

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 5:23 p.m.

You want easy? Buy my SBC powered Jag!

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Reader
10/16/16 5:40 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

Jags are English. England is decidedly not America.

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem Reader
10/16/16 5:46 p.m.

Dare to be different! Find a impact bumper 74 through 79 Nova or Ventura. Preferably Grandma car with flat paint job and a little patina. Go 4 door if you dare. Replace big heavy bumpers with fiberglass replica. Hood and trunk lid with fiberglass. Wide steel wheels with dog dish hubcaps. Old school small block Chevy power which is cheap now that everyone wants an LS motor. Get Speedway Motors Circle Track catalog and stuff some stiffness under it. Shakewell. Terrorize all the posers at the next autocross.

Shop swap meets. Replace sell tank with 10 gallon plastic urethane fuel cell. Mexican blanket rear seat cover.minimalist interior. Easily under 3000 lbs

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
10/16/16 6:15 p.m.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

I suspect you are not aware of it but you pretty well described Andrew Nelson's 2004 Challenge Car.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
10/16/16 6:19 p.m.

Today I took A p71 for a spin on the autox. I have been searching 9C1 caprices. There's a really nice black and white one in Tucson.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 6:32 p.m.
AClockworkGarage wrote: In reply to Javelin: Jags are English. England is decidedly not America.

If it's a 1984 Jag, could you claim it was built in Landing Strip One?

Chadeux
Chadeux HalfDork
10/16/16 6:40 p.m.

Pinto. That's my suggestion.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
10/16/16 7:10 p.m.

I like the offerings from the fringe... How about an All American '80s Dodge Pickup with as much Evo/DSM drive train as you can afford?

Sample

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/16/16 7:56 p.m.
AClockworkGarage wrote: In reply to Javelin: Jags are English. England is decidedly not America.

I've seen LS-swap Nissan 240's run in CAM, so why not a SBC Jag?

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