What car-Dad Edition

I’ve got a three year old right now (forward facing car seat) and a new baby will be joining the family in November, meaning that a second (rear-facing) carset will be joining us. My MS3 has been an essentially perfect daily driver since I purchased it way back in 2009 but I’m too tall to fit a car seat behind my driver’s seat (I’m 6’1’’ and mostly legs; Currently I have my 3YO behind the passenger’s seat). The timing for buying a new car is probably good because the MS3 has over 210,000 miles and has been driven through 14 New England winters so it’s pretty tired and pretty rusty.

Replacement car requirements:

1. Manual transmission
2. 4 or more doors
3. Large enough to fit two car seats and a tall driver
4. Fun to drive
5. Can do fun things (I have a track day Miata, but the MS3 did some autocross and Track Night stuff because it’s fun to occasionally play with the daily)
6. Reliable (I do around 15,000 miles per year, don’t want a project, need to car to work every time, and want to keep the car for a long time).
7. $40,000 budget cap (the closer to this cap, the closer to brand new I need to be. I can’t afford a $38k used car that will need a bunch of maintenance right away).
8. Strongly prefer a fun color (my Speed3 is True Red, which I love)  

Contenders I’ve considered and why they don’t seem perfect:

Chevy SS: Seems like a perfect car (size, manual, fun) but used ones with 50k+ miles are going for the same as or more than they sold for new. Getting into the $40k bracket would really be pushing the budget, and there’s no way I can do that for a 7 year old car that already has a lot of miles.

Civic Type R: Is the backseat substantially bigger than my MS3? Do these exist at MSRP? MSRP is already a sickening amount for a Civic but I might be able to stretch to it if it’s as good as everybody says.

Civic Si: Is the backseat substantially bigger than my MS3? I’m worried it will be a little disappointing power wise and size wise (no hatch) coming from the MS3.

Accord 2.0T: Unicorn with the manual and they seem to sell at or above MSRP used. My wife has a 2019 Accord hybrid which is a nice car but isn’t that fun. Would the sport trim and sticky tires transform it, or would it still be a boring car just with a big engine?

Elantra N: Is the backseat substantially bigger than my MS3? Might be the closest thing to the Speed3 from a cost/performance standpoint. Lack of a hatch is disappointing. I’d have to wait for the 2024 because I can’t stand the face on the current car.

GR Corolla: My impression is that this car is smaller than the Civic R with basically all of the same downsides.  

Mazda 5: Is it possible to find a clean, low mileage 2.5L 6spd? Most of what I’ve seen pop up looks pretty used up. I could see throwing a bunch of Speed 3 handing parts at a 5 but I’m worried the lack of power will be sad in a daily. A brand new Mazdaspeed5 would be my dream car for this application but obviously doesn’t exist.  

GTI: Is the backseat substantially bigger than my MS3? Similar to the Si, I’m worried this will be less exciting than my current car.

Jeep Wranger: I don’t know much about these. Is the 4 door back seat a decent size? The go anywhere capability and the convertible aspect are appealing. I know they have a big following and come in fun colors. Will it be a penalty box on dry paved roads? Seems like maybe the tops (soft and hard) are not as easy to deal with and remove as with a Miata.

What’s missing from my list? What’s on my list that you think I should strongly consider? What should I delete from my list? I’m a bit lost on what route to take. When I bought the Speed3 I had been lusting over that exact car for quite a while. When I bought my NA Miata I knew exactly what I wanted. Nothing has really gotten me excited as a Speed3 replacement yet.

Unless the latest versions have substantially more room in back, there is only one sub-compact or compact car we looked at that will comfortably fit a rear facing child seat behind an adult without squishing them... Honda Fit. Ok, so they haven't been made since 2020, but are you opposed to starting with a good condition low mileage used car?

Manual available, 4 door, great space, fun in a slow-car-fast way, reliable, under budget, and fun colors available.

No idea about sportiness vs a regular Accord, but I did see this Accord 2.0T during my recent car shopping.   I don't know if it's worth a fly and drive to buy.

Wranglers are awful if you have kids in booster seats.  Even the 4 doors are tiny.  They are pretty miserable for long high speed drives but pretty enjoyable in town and in the country.

I would forgo the manual transmission requirement and get the nicest BMW X3 or X5 with the M Appearance Package you can find.  They check every box and are so good you wont miss the manual.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Yeah, the manual transmission requirement (which, hey I understand), is the major limiting factor. 

I did forget to mention, my wife's Mk7 GTI seems to have a decent amount of back seat space for a compact car.  It may be a good idea to grab the car seats, and take them to a dealer to check out the Mk8s.  The Jetta GLI has a couple extra inches of wheelbase, but I don't know if that translates to more interior room.  Either of them will be less exciting than an MS3, they are pretty much the "mature" sport compacts.  They do eat miles pretty well, though, and are well equipped even in base trim.

WRX?

Genesis G70?

Cadillac CTS?

3-Series?

Focus RS?

wae said:

Focus RS?

he said reliable. 

Would be a tough one to get in your budget, but if you can find one, check out the Cadillac ATS-V.  They come in sedan form with the manual transmission.  Kind of a lighter duty Chevy SS.  

I'll put in my vote for the Elantra N. We bought a new '23 earlier this year and have put ~6500 miles on it since. I find the styling to be unoffensive, and I really like some of the little details that the '24s seem to have watered down.

The back seat is impressively-sized. Thankfully, our little one is no longer rear-facing, but he fits fine behind the driver's seat regardless of who is driving. This car replaced a long line of manual daily drivers for my wife, but she wanted the DCT this time around so I can't comment on the manual portion other than acknowledging they exist and being glad that's the case.

A good friend of ours just bought a new GTI. The back seat of the Elantra N feels a fair bit roomier, but that's just a feeling. I'm not sure what the numbers would say. Child seats are all weirdly-proportioned anyway. Here's our car with his:

It is completely nutty how capable they both are.

New Model 3 or used Model S Tesla?  Yeah yeah no manual but very quick and handle well.  The S has the cool rear facing kiddo seats in the rear hatch and more interior space.  A 17-19 Ludicrous Mode Performance S can be had for your pricing.

Otherwise I like your list and would have manual CTS V 2nd gen on it.

Since Bob must be busy today, I'll preach the gospel according to Bob on his behalf... 2023 Kia Forte GT.  Much like the Elantra N with a different look.

You might have to act quickly.  I can not quote chapter and verse but I think it was written that the manual trans will not continue for 2024.

The Forte/Elantra is fwd but the Genisis G70 is rwd.  Sample

More GRM chatter about G70

If there are any deals coming up on the 2023 Elantra N's, taking the front bumper bits to a body shop could help the look...

However, I'm doubtful that the Elantra N (or any of the other interesting cars in that size class) will be what the OP is actually looking for from a rear space standpoint.

I'll have to do some research and learn more about the ATS-V and the G70. Thanks guys! 
 

The Elantra looks way better like that! I'll have to drive one and see how well the car seats fit. 

In reply to CrashDummy :

There is lots of info/opinion out there about child car seat fitment...

G70 specific

Many other cars rated/tested

My best advice is:

• take the car seats with you for test drives and put them into the car being tested
• be mindful of which seats you buy.  

As for being mindful of which seats to get, see my words and pictures in this thread.  

Get the baby buckets with the optional stationary bases.  These are a game changer.  Since the bases are stupid expensive (like $100 each) add them to a gift registry.  Its a great way for co-workers to pool the money of 5-10 people to buy something meaningful.  Get a base for anyone who will be moving the baby often.  That might mean to even get a 3rd base if grandma is moving the kid often.  

After the bucket phase, resist the temptation to buy just one more seat to fit the kid for the rest of his years.  One like this claims the seat can accomidate 5lbs-120lbs.    I assure you that this seat is likely ENORMOUS and will fit in very few cars during the rear facing phase.  

Buy a seat more like this sample which is intended for 5lb to 65lbs.  The worst portion is the phase of rear facing but too big for the baby bucket.  Buy a seat specific for this phase so as to get something that will fit in a sedan.  This seat of ours was specific for to this purpose:

6'1" tall driver with a car seat behind is going to be really tough in anything smaller than a mid-size sedan (he said as a 6'1" driver with similar issues).

I'd be surprised if the ATS is going to work. Might as well try everything, but it's essentially a Camaro in a tux, and Camaros have a reputation for tiny back seats. Google says the wheelbase is 109.3" and the Camaro is actually longer at 110.7" which doesn't bode well.

If you already have the fun track toy with the stick, I'd suggest a big muscle-y daily like a Charger, CTS Sport, Durango, Explorer ST, etc. It will still have enough of a "fun" factor without (literally) cramping your dad ride style.

In reply to STM317 :

Just to be clear, I am 6'1" @250lbs and this is me with the driver's seat all the way back and the seat at my normal level of recline (which is no where near straight up) in a Gen2 Prius.  

In my opinion, it is more about getting a petit child car seat for this phase.  

Technically, the Gen2 Prius was classified as a mid-sized car based on its interior volume.  

Type R gets my vote, but I'm biased 

Mine's an '18, bought last October for right at $40k with 13k miles in like-new condition. This one just happened to pop up at a local dealer and I feel like I got a decent deal on it. That was right about the time the '23s were just starting to hit the ports here in the US, and with the car market in general calming down a bit since then I have to think similar deals are out there now, especially if you're willing to travel a bit. 

Not sure about about child seats, but I'm 6'3 and can sit behind myself quite comfortably, with my knees just barely brushing the back of the driver's seat. It's been a while since I've been in the back of a 1st or 2nd gen 3, but I feel like it is substantially roomier. No middle seat in back though, which is kind of weird and may or may not matter for your use. I'd be happy to provide any specific measurements if that would help at all. 

I would really liked to have driven an Elantra N for comparison, but could not find a single one on a dealer lot at the time - like literally anywhere in this half of the country. Out of the GTI, WRX, STI, and Civic Si that I also drove, I definitely liked the Si best, and the choice came down to either that or the Type R. In a lot of ways, the Si really would have been the better choice for a DD - cheaper buy in, more reasonable wheel/tire package, much better fuel mileage, etc. But the R is just a little bit extra in every way, while still being totally docile and reasonable in every day use. I love it and don't regret my choice one bit. 

Minivan. I raced some ricer at the stoplight with my 98 Windstar. I squealed the tires and won. LOL.

The Accord may work,  the other cars listed will be too small except the SS.  The Jeep backseat has plenty of room and kids love Jeeps.

Definitely try a GTI. We had a 2012 and I was always amazed at how much room there was in the back seat. I think the newer generations have grown a bit too. And Tom recently proved how capable they are on track!

And an Elantra N sure seems like a great option. Based on the e46 vs HEN thread, it's awfully capable right out of the box. 

How about a 1300 hp van?

https://fb.watch/mmDoENurcs/?mibextid=v7YzmG

Yeah, my kids are 2&5. In the prepping for our first period my daily was a Miata. I threw my arms up and got an expedition to be able to tow fun cars. I went too far and it's no fun to drive. Correcting for that, I have a Maverick being delivered any day now. (Literally, it's at a distribution lot waiting to be loaded on a semi).

I have a 90's mustang for fun street stuff, but its hardly ever driven lately. (Working on that...) I also have a bugeye sprite for roadster fun. Racecar is a formula car, hence tow requirements. The mustang cannot do a rear facing child seat, it just won't work.

Mazda5, wife has one. It's an 06 auto. It's acceleration is... Depressing. I floor it regularly just merging, not being a hoon. I also HATE FWD. So, it's barely more fun to me than others expedition. 

Would a dual clutch flappy paddle be close enough to meet your want of stick? Hyundai Santa Cruz can be had with 5k tow and that...  wonder if one could be lowered...

Others have a better idea of sedans these days. But the ability to tow the race car has worked for me.