Wonder whether they are moving any remanufactured Jensen Interceptors?
Wonder whether they are moving any remanufactured Jensen Interceptors?
I love the Singer and other modernized sports cars, but what I would like to see is the factories producing cars like that. I don't understand why we don't get a beautiful car like the GTV with Focus mechanicals instead of the awkward styling of the Focus. Or a Fiesta that looks like.a Lancia Fulvia instead of that ugly little car. My 78 Fiesta S was a lot better looking than the new one. Most new cars are ungainly, butt in the air, multiple grilles, lines going in different directions, and ugly dashboards. Another example is the Camaro. The 70 is beautiful in and out but the new ones couldn't be any uglier.
JimS wrote: I love the Singer and other modernized sports cars, but what I would like to see is the factories producing cars like that. I don't understand why we don't get a beautiful car like the GTV with Focus mechanicals instead of the awkward styling of the Focus.
A lot of modern styling is based around structural needs to meet modern safety regulations. No thin pillars with lots of glass. Pedestrian crumple zones over the engines. Aero tweaks to eke out even tiny amounts of MPGs. The bodylines are there to keep them from being just identical, boring, teardrop shapes.
JimS wrote: I love the Singer and other modernized sports cars, but what I would like to see is the factories producing cars like that. I don't understand why we don't get a beautiful car like the GTV with Focus mechanicals instead of the awkward styling of the Focus. Or a Fiesta that looks like.a Lancia Fulvia instead of that ugly little car. My 78 Fiesta S was a lot better looking than the new one. Most new cars are ungainly, butt in the air, multiple grilles, lines going in different directions, and ugly dashboards. Another example is the Camaro. The 70 is beautiful in and out but the new ones couldn't be any uglier.
Nothing is stopping Fiat to let Alfa and Lancia to make those exact cars.
There are some regulatory based styling, but realistically, it's the tastes of the people making the cars.
It would not be that hard to update the shape and structure of a GTV or a 2600 Coupe (which are very close to each other) to meet regulations.
The hard part is that there are no more One Person design's. Bertone let Giugario (sp?) have a very good day on that shape. Pininfarina has done some amazing shapes. That barely happens anymore.
Historically, the current Giulia fits into the old- it was designed by Alfa. Good looking, but I don't see it as remarkable. Let Pininfarina make a Spider off that and Bertone make a coupe off of that (or two other specialty houses like them). That should make some great looking cars.
(then again, I like how my Fiesta looked, and how my Focus looks, given the context of what the original Fiesta had around it- it wasn't that good looking, either- the shape of the Alfetta GT and Sirocco were better)
In reply to JimS:
There are legitimate reasons why modern cars are styled the way that they are, and couldn't be styled like cars of the past. Most of it has to do with government regulation and consumer expectations.
Those old cars didn't have to pass today's tough crash tests or package a dozen airbags into the cockpit. The cars you long for didn't have their shape honed in wind tunnels to meet fuel economy standards and reduce emissions. And they had zero concern for pedestrian safety, unlike modern cars.
In reply to DWNSHFT:
Delete the Testarossa wannabe side strakes and the nostrils from the hood bulge from that XJ-S and it would have the right look. It does need a snarly 7 litre V12 to back up the looks of course.
I wouldn't pay a quarter million bucks for it, but I'm not the person who would pay that for a Singer 911 either. I do think it would be equally drool worthy.
WilD wrote: In reply to DWNSHFT: Delete the Testarossa wannabe side strakes and the nostrils from the hood bulge from that XJ-S and it would have the right look. It does need a snarly 7 litre V12 to back up the looks of course. I wouldn't pay a quarter million bucks for it, but I'm not the person who would pay that for a Singer 911 either. I do think it would be equally drool worthy.
Nobody pays a quarter million for a Singer 911 anymore. Those days have passed. Now it's about double that. I had access to their configurator for a while (and may have just maybe saved a copy to my work computer)...yowza. I was there with a guy who had a car on order, and they were giving him a hard time for only having ONE.
Ok... I'm starting to think air cooled Porsches are the automotive equivalent of Beanie Babies.
I like the idea of the 70-81 Camaro and Firebird getting this treatment. Not many people like the mid-70's ones enough, so I'd say stick to the 1970-73 and the 1977-81 cars.
Year One did try and do this with the 1977-78 Trans Am a few years ago:
Honestly, I like some of the new features, but overall, I'm not a fan. The headlights don't look right to me for one thing. I prefer the 4-eyes look. The wheels are nice: billet 18" wheels that look like the old Snowflake wheels. Inside isn't bad, but I would have used different seats. You could get them with modified Pontiac V8 power or a variety of LS-based power plants.
The coolest part is that they made many of the parts available to purchase on their own. They also made a more reasonable 17" aluminum version of the Snowflake wheels, as well as Honeycomb and Rallye styles. They also made the "N90" Z28/Monte SS wheels in the same sizes if you have a Camaro.
914
If I win the lottery, I would have them build me a ridiculous 914
This is a tough one to me because there has to be a historical and actual value to the car and an all around excellent driving experience to begin with to make it worth a quarter to a half million dollars.
I have seen Dynacorn Mustang body based builds using modern powertrains and upgraded suspensions, etc. but they want like $150,000 + for them! In the back of my mind, I still think you could build the same thing for much, much cheaper. Even if you paid handsomely to have the bodywork and interior done. Why? Because a 65-68 Mustang is still a relatively inexpensive car to buy a donor body for, and the aftermarket is robust and the powertrain options are relatively cheap. Spend $20K on a new Coyote motor or a 460 SVO block and you're making like 700 hp!
In comparison to a Singer, you’re taking the last of the aircooled Porsches which are already steadily increasing in value to be out of reach to Joe Blow turning wrenches in his garage to begin with, and putting in a built engine which is also very expensive to build and maintain.
I could see maybe a 240Z, an E30 M3 clone, an FD RX-7, or a MKIV Supra having equal amounts of “Wow factor”, perceived value, and performance to justify a quarter to half a million dollars. As cool as a mustang, a corvette, a mopar, would be, I feel like there are enough one off restomod and Pro Touring builds happening to not justify a market for those.
Modern safety requirements haven't kept Audi from making sleek well proportioned cars. Also VW 's GTI dashboard is one of the best. I just think most new cars are overstyled inside and outside.
I think that the the only way any other car could be "singer-ized" is if the car was legendary to start with, there are still a lot of them out there, and they are expensive to start with. BMW is the only one that I could see this happening with. All the other cars named above are too cheap and don't have the history behind them. When I was a kid 911s and BMWs were unattainable. 240z, AE86, RX7, Camaro, Mustangs were all easy to buy. Of course you could do everything to a 69 camaro that singer does but it will never command $250K or more. I could have a shop build me any of these cars to a singer level for much less than that. Honestly for that matter I bet I could have TRE build a 911 to singer standards for less than $250K. It may not have all the carbon and custom touches but it would definately be kick ass.
Honestly I wonder what a singer sells for on the used market. Does it still command the outrageous prices once you are on owner two?
Isn't there some outfit in the U.K. doing similar high end restorations on 90s or newer land rovers, but making them look like 60s versions, like adding windshields you can lower, backdating the dash and all that? Just searched but can't find. Not my style, but I feel like the market might be deep enough.
WilD wrote: What about the Jaguar XJ-S? Jaguar is an iconic brand, the XJ-S is fairly desirable as a GT yet easy to find and generally affordable. However, many people find the stock examples lacking in several regards. But, we know the V12 can be punched out to bigger displacements and can make great sounds. Do that, lower it, add some fender flare with deep wheels... See Group 44 race car for some inspiration. I'm not sure how much demand there would really be, but it just seems like there is so much untapped potential in the car...
See Dean from Motorcars Inc, he builds restomod jags like a boss.
D2W wrote: Honestly I wonder what a singer sells for on the used market. Does it still command the outrageous prices once you are on owner two?
I'll bet they appreciate - if only because the price of a new one keeps jacking up. When I get back into the office next week I'll try to post the price list, ping me if I forget.
They're like a high-end watch. You can't justify the price in any possible way, but they're works of art. Singer doesn't do very much of the work, but they're the creators and curators of the vision. That's what sets them apart. There was another retro/restro 911 at SEMA this year that some people really liked (on the GRM forum, IIRC) but which was clumsier than a Singer. It just didn't have the obsessive attention to detail and high-end work like nickel-plated brightwork.
I can see this working with a Land Rover Defender. They're a bit like a 911, lots of parts interchange and an iconic history. I'd love a truck that looks like a Series but rides like a Rangie. Someday I'll build one 
Ah, found it. I'm not going to publish all of it because I might want to go back to visit again, but here are a couple of highlights.
Basic restoration (3.6 270 hp engine) $395,000
Basic restoration (3.8 350 hp engine) $440,000
Basic restoration (4.0 390 hp engine) $480,000
Suspension upgrades can be over $12,000, seam welding is $10,000, brake upgrades can be north of $20,000.
Lets be honest here- Singers are just hot rods. There have been high end hot rods for many years, this is just another version of it. When you start with a high end car, you can just move up in cost.
Also- when you are doing a hammer seam weld vs mig stitching, the labor is high.
FWIW, this is a good example of why some very cheap looking hand built cars are so very, very expensive.
Good for them that they found a market for such high end cars. Not for me, but clearly for somebody.
Reimagining the Porsche 911 was a very unique proposition.
There are a bunch of older cars that folks would love to see updated. There are extraordinarily few that meet the specific criteria.
Nobody besides Porsche meets all of those.
That said there are some interesting restomods for a bunch of cars that can be built to a price. That price is probably in the neighborhood of 90% of the MSRP of a brand new model, if it exists.
My list
EG Civic hatch Integra Type R Prelude Rwd 2 door Datsuns Supra Rwd Corollas and Celicas
Corvette F-body Mustang
3-series BMW -SL Mercedes
Jaguars before the Ford era Range Rovers before the Ford era
3xx Ferraris
The only vehicle that comes to mind that can play the Singer game, take a relatively new car and backdated it with select parts is a JEEP. The same shape for over 75 years.
The problem with most of our suggestions is that we wsnt to take the old and make it look new. Singer takes the new and makes it look old.
The 911 is very unusual in that it was introduced in 1965 and enjoyed factory modernization without visual changes through 1989 (except bumpers). So it offered 1980s performance and fuel injection and stuff in a 1960s aesthetic. Very few cars stay in production that long. But, that reminded me of another one:
The original Mercedes SL was introduced in 1971 and produced through 1989. Lots were made, lots of update/backdating should be possible, they always had an exceptional reputation/desirability among a broad demographic.
Searching for that photo turned up another interesting possibility:
The more I think about this, the more it is apparent how unique the 911 is. The continuity and desirability is almost unrivaled. They are special, special things despite their ubiquity.
Life is also a paradox.
That said, I think there are several vehicles that haven't been mentioned here that could be considered.
Old Rolls and Bentleys. The continuity and iconic-ness is there. The availability is definitely there. I think the only question is whether the demand could be there. In my mind I imagine an old Corniche with a 'more sufficiently powerful' turbo 6.75, modern transmission with tons of speeds, subtly upgraded lighting/body, not so subtle wheels, modernised interior and magnetorheological suspension. In my mind it would cost about what a modern Roller would but would be much, much classier and timeless.
NSX's would be an interesting possibility.
Porsche 928's with Panamera running gear?
Lotus Esprit's might work. Just fix the transmissions in the V8 cars and backdate the body.
You could update old Morgans, but then they would just be new Morgans. And, honestly, we should all be driving new Morgans.
Mercedes almost invented this game with their 300SL AMG's. http://www.topgear.com/car-news/list/ten-reasons-you-need-merc-300sl
The 300SL is no longer practical, but 190SL's and Pagoda's are definite possibilities.
Frontline Developments already does this to MGB's. See http://www.frontlinedevelopments.com/vehicles/
The Land Rover Defender is definitely a possibility, as is the Mercedes G-class for similar reasons.
Of those already mentioned, I don't see E30's working out. The ones that are worth any money must be totally original. 2002's and E9's, on the other hand might be viable.
I imagine this is basically the 240 that everyone is envisioning: http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/02/os-giken-power-americas-exotic-240z/
Keith Tanner wrote: Ah, found it. I'm not going to publish all of it because I might want to go back to visit again, but here are a couple of highlights. Basic restoration (3.6 270 hp engine) $395,000 Basic restoration (3.8 350 hp engine) $440,000 Basic restoration (4.0 390 hp engine) $480,000 Suspension upgrades can be over $12,000, seam welding is $10,000, brake upgrades can be north of $20,000.
With that kind of budget 308 Ferrari modernizations are definitely possible.
I forgot to mention XK120's and early Vipers.
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