What Car: Learning RWD

AE86 sound great in theory. A friend just drove one well in rallycross nationals. Even he tried to talk me out of it. One that's nice enough to drive it to expensive to make it worth it in his opinion. He's had his long enough to have AE86 tatooed on his shoulder.
C4 corvette would be sweeeeeet but I'm not sure that rallycrossing one is possible. Rallycross is my thing.
Porsche 924, especialy the late S looks really tempting on paper. Slightly worried about repair/upkeep costs, but I actually kind of like 924's.
Are E36 M3's really down to $5K? They also seem to be a bit heavy, no?
Miata. It all comes back to Miata. Everything is judged against this and I'm not entirely sure that there's a better answer. I don't really like them. I certainly don't hate them, but they don't move me. This is really about driver development though, so I might have to just deal with the lack of passion for a couple of years.

Another thought is a Mustang or Camaro, both are typical solid axle RWD cars with tons of aftermarket potential, support and can grow with you to some extent.

turboswede wrote: The 944 is a great choice, lots of people racing those, so tons of information and parts available. 50/50 distribution and robust construction (trailing arm rear suspension, similar to Super Beetles, etc) would make it a good candidate for RX and AX as well as track days. The tin top helps it with some sanctioning bodies that require cages for 'verts. The engine isn't very powerful, but it isn't peaky or prone to causing drama allowing for a good learning curve. Think of it like a step between a Miata and a Corvette as they are all very similar in handling dynamics, just differences in weight dictating certain aspects of it. The Spec Miata's and Spec 944's run in the same run groups in SCCA and are fairly evenly matched, depending on the venue. Someone in the local 944 group just picked up a 944 for free from the side of the road where the lady ran it into a guardrail. He replaced the broken strut, wheel and banged the fender out and its driving again. So if you look, the deals are out there.

Is there a reason to chose 944 over 924 or the other way around? The late 924S has the same motor as the 944 if I read my internet right. I kind of like the 924/944 and then the P car guys would let me play with them without having to risk my wife killing me for breaking the 911.

mazdeuce wrote: AE86 sound great in theory. A friend just drove one well in rallycross nationals. Even he tried to talk me out of it. One that's nice enough to drive it to expensive to make it worth it in his opinion. He's had his long enough to have AE86 tatooed on his shoulder. C4 corvette would be sweeeeeet but I'm not sure that rallycrossing one is possible. Rallycross is my thing. Porsche 924, especialy the late S looks really tempting on paper. Slightly worried about repair/upkeep costs, but I actually kind of like 924's. Are E36 M3's really down to $5K? They also seem to be a bit heavy, no? Miata. It all comes back to Miata. Everything is judged against this and I'm not entirely sure that there's a better answer. I don't really like them. I certainly don't hate them, but they don't move me. This is really about driver development though, so I might have to just deal with the lack of passion for a couple of years.

The regular 924 will teach you a lot about maintaining speed through the corners as it is not very fast as most came with 95hp 2.0L in the US, get one with the 125hp euro-spec motor and you're doing better. The 924 Turbo is even more and is quicker than the 924S, but most are pretty much projects at this point. The 924S is just an early 944 in a slinky dress, which isn't a bad thing at all. There are a few 924S running around with 968 3.0L powertrains or even 951 drivetrains, not too mention the venerable V8 swaps, so they are pretty much lego's for the most part. The maintenance isn't too expensive aside from the timing belt pieces and those have been DIY'd quite well and the price is come down pretty well.

The 924 body limits the amount of tire you can stuff under it, compared to the 944 (without adding D-prod or Carrera GT style flares). However the 924 has a more Aerodynamic body and without the front spoiler, might lend itself better to RX.

Hmmmmm.....

Where are you mazdaduece??? ae86andkp61 (member on here) will be selling a pretty good AE86 GT-S coupe shortly(Portland Oregon). Priced in the $3500 range. His car is currently set up for rally cross

Concerning the AE86 and why it is good to use to learn how to drive rwd.... it boils down to track width vs wheelbase, and the ratio derived from these numbers. In essence a ratio greater than 1.6 tends to be more nimble (less stable) then a ratio less then 1.6. From memory the one extreme is a formula one car with a ratio of about 2.0, these are extremely nimble. The AE86 has a ratio of about 1.7.

Five point oh.

How about a Maserati BiTurbo? I want to build one for MR.

Although you did say you want to drive it, not just work on it.

Volvo 242GT? Toyota MR2? Lexus SC300? 1980-85 Celica/Supra?

In reply to oldeskewltoy: I'm in Houston but I'd fly to Portland for a nice car. I really like flying and driving. A portland car would make me worried about rust. We don't really have that here in Texas and I'm becoming a huge fan of rust free shells. Also, a car with AC, even if it was inoperable and needed to be fixed, is a HUGE plus. It's really hot down here. Like, really hot. Let me know though.

Triumph TR7.

Rust in Portland? This isn't Portland Maine we are talking about.

FSP_ZX2 wrote: Five point oh.

Mustangs are really cheap in Houston. Might be a good idea.

EvanB wrote: Rust in Portland? This isn't Portland Maine we are talking about.

But snow and stuff? Do things not rust in Oregon?

240sx. Cheap, reliable, and TONS of aftermarket parts out there for it.

In reply to Spoolpigeon:

A clean 240sx doesn't seem to exist at any price point where I'd want to pay for it. Wouldn't be bad though.

mazdeuce wrote:

EvanB wrote: Rust in Portland? This isn't Portland Maine we are talking about.

But snow and stuff? Do things not rust in Oregon?

Nope, not really. That's why there are still so many cool old cars around. Like British Sports Cars, Land Rovers and even Fiats/Alfas, etc. All of them are known to rust elsewhere, but even though we get rain and the occasional snow, we typically don't put salt on the roads and the rain isn't very acidic either.

Wait don't you own a 911?

What is the goal? Do you want to learn? do you want to go faster than FWD? What is your goal as a driver. I would make sure whatever I buy helps get their. Honestly for rallyx I would strongly consider a small truck of some kind.

mazdeuce wrote:

FSP_ZX2 wrote: Five point oh.

Mustangs are really cheap in Houston. Might be a good idea.

...and parts/consumables are cheap and plentiful and the aftermarket is nearly unlimited...and there is a "recipe" for any level of build/prep that you want to pursue.

nocones wrote: Wait don't you own a 911? What is the goal? Do you want to learn? do you want to go faster than FWD? What is your goal as a driver. I would make sure whatever I buy helps get their. Honestly for rallyx I would strongly consider a small truck of some kind.

I do have a 911. I love the car. More importantly though, my wife well and truly loves the car. I have been given permission to autocross it occasionally, but I can't track it and I absolutely cannot no questions asked rallycross it. Ever.
My long term goal is to participate in some stage rally and limited road racing maybe. Right now I live in Texas and stage rally is all a long way away. I could do it financially now, but I cannot because of the time. My youngest son will be done with school in 12 years and then I'm free to roam.
I was at rallycross nationals and talking to Brianne Corn about a new car. She's won several autocross national championships (in open, not women's), Pike's Peak, and stage rally. I've driven with her in the passenger seat and ridden with her in the drivers seat quite a lot over the last year. In her opinion, I'm to the fine tuning part of my FWD driving. I still have things to learn, and could spend years getting better. However, I'm still on the steeper part of the learning curve with RWD and spending two years in a RWD car will help me in every way as a driver. Several people echoed her thoughts. I don't think I would go and sell a FWD car to switch right now, but since I find myself without a racecar at all, now is a good time to sit and reflect and get the best tool for the job.

rust isn't a problem... although there might be a few surface rust areas... there is no structural rust issue...

There is no A/C.... Not really needed up here... BUT you might be able to piece together something......

The car has been rally crossed... there is some typical rally cross undercarriage damage (dents, dings)... but nothing terminal.

I got your email, and sent your email address to him.

unlike many AE86s.... this one I can say is 9 out of 10 reliable... It had suffered with an intermittent electrical glitch, but he and I swapped out the engine harness about 2 years ago and everything has been fine with it since.

I let him tell you about his car... but it is set up (springs and dampers) for rally cross.... he has a few goodies(talk to him) he might be willing to part with too.

edit - he just texted me... he'll email you tonight

OK, I talked to my AE-86 guy and I'm excited to hear about the car.
I appreciate the input from everyone, it has given me a lot to think about.

318ti... lightest E36 out there... can take most of the E36 mods (except for the rear suspension, then you have to do E30 mods)

2500 lbs and 138 HP? Is that about right? Sounds like it's worth a look. I was under the impression that the E36 rear suspension was quite a lot better.

Well, how much better is a 318ti rear suspension than an AE86's? I think that's a pointless line of thought unless you have some specific goal that it can't hit.

An e36 is hard to beat. I would pass on a ti, the others are ok.

Also the BMW will be cheaper to maintain than the 944.

I used an S13 to "teach" myself RWD. I spent a good 6 years running different generations of GTI's around cones and track days. Wanted to have some experience in RWD too and find out what all the hype is about.

It took a few years to get myself and the car competitive, but it's there. After forking over teh cash for r-comps this year I have won 7/9 events this year in San Diego Region Street Mod. I would get spanked by National Level guys, but so far I am holding off a 300HP e36 M3, a 400 HP Roush Stang, and a 500+ HP G8. Only drove this on track once at Infineon in pouring rain. Curious if these chassis can fare well in Rally-x too.

Luckily I got mine from my neighborhood from a seller that knew nothing of the drift tax.