What Car: Learning RWD

Between me and several buddies, we rallycross, autocross, and do lemons/chump with e30s. They're pretty bulletproof, built tough, handle well with minor mods, easy to work on, easy to drive, and parts are cheap and plentiful

$5k gets you one in good condition, maybe with an engine swap to something more powerful, and a decent suspension and other toys.

Plus you can fit all your tires, tools, and gear for a trackday/autocross/rallycross in the car itself since it has a giant trunk and backseat area (with seat removed).

I guess it's cliche' to say e30, but there's a reason so many of them do so many motorsports. I was a skeptic until I bought one myself (for rallycross/autocross) and race a different one in chump/lemons.

I'll let you know how a 944 compares in rallycross this weekend, since we have one coming out to run in MR against 5 e30s (and a FR-S) :)

$5k will buy you a lot of G-body GM too, with all the circle track parts to go along with it. Add some lightness and your favorite cheap GM drivetrain and call it a day.

MR2

all

day

long

Hmmmmmm, RX-8's are dipping into the $5k range. They are the same chassis as the NC miata? I do worry about killing a rotary though.

If you kill the rotary you can just swap in a MZR from a NC Miata.

mazdeuce wrote: Hmmmmmm, RX-8's are dipping into the $5k range. They are the same chassis as the NC miata? I do worry about killing a rotary though.

As much as I like the RX-8, don't buy one in that price range. They engines in the early cars really do seem to have some reliability issues (or at least the original engines did), the transmissions can't take much abuse, the ignition system is failure-prone which kills very expensive cat-cons, and the lack of torque will be a disappointment in rally-x, I would think.

My GF has one, we race it, I love it on track and in auto-x, I wouldn't recommend one though.

Also, from what I've seen the cars getting down in the $5000 range are typically either autos or mechanically trashed. Seems like most decent cars are still 8-10k.

mad_machine wrote: 318ti... lightest E36 out there... can take most of the E36 mods (except for the rear suspension, then you have to do E30 mods)

Technically thats Z3 mods......I discovered only the rear dif and axles from an e30 are interchangable. I tried control arms and they didn't fit.

But I have to +1 them, they'll make you learn to drive rwd, handling is great until you lift off the throttle in mid corner, then it'll kill you.

No RX-8. Check.
It appears that I can get into a 2002-04 Mustang GT for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k. My initial thought is that this 3400 lb beast would not be that pleasant in the dirt, but maybe I'm wrong. The price/performance ratio seems good.

Isn't your Ford wagon rwd?

I'm not completely off my meds.

mazdeuce wrote: It appears that I can get into a 2002-04 Mustang GT for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k. My initial thought is that this 3400 lb beast would not be that pleasant in the dirt, but maybe I'm wrong. The price/performance ratio seems good.

I think irish posted a video of an in-car run in a Mustang SVT. The run was mostly sideways and he was giggling constantly... but then again, that describes most of irish's in-car videos as well...

I'd almost say buy my E30... but it would need some work before it could make a run from PA to TX.

C7 vette aerowagon.

yamaha wrote:

mad_machine wrote: 318ti... lightest E36 out there... can take most of the E36 mods (except for the rear suspension, then you have to do E30 mods)

Technically thats Z3 mods......I discovered only the rear dif and axles from an e30 are interchangable. I tried control arms and they didn't fit. But I have to +1 them, they'll make you learn to drive rwd, handling is great until you lift off the throttle in mid corner, then it'll kill you.

Much like an early 911. It's what makes them fun

Ian F wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: It appears that I can get into a 2002-04 Mustang GT for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k. My initial thought is that this 3400 lb beast would not be that pleasant in the dirt, but maybe I'm wrong. The price/performance ratio seems good.

I think irish posted a video of an in-car run in a Mustang SVT. The run was mostly sideways and he was giggling constantly... but then again, that describes most of irish's in-car videos as well... I'd almost say buy my E30... but it would need some work before it could make a run from PA to TX.

wasn't me, but I know what vid you're talking about. Actually that vid kind of annoyed me because he didn't seem to get any traction anywhere on the course and was going really slow. Looked like he was at 7k rpms the whole time and going 20mph!

and I never giggle when driving. More often I'm cursing :D

If I lose this weekend, I'm locked into 2nd place for the season. If that happens, I will do some serious hooning at the final event next month - I promise. And have vids of it. And maybe I'll giggle just for you.

Your wife's car. The red one. It's RWD. It's kindof brilliant to drive on a race track. If you can throttle steer one of those well - you can drive anything fast.

But... a trailing arm E30 will teach you something about fast hands at a way lower impact velocity

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I'm driving 'her' car in autocrosses until I get something worked out. It works, but even I can tell that it wants to do everything at greater speeds than autocross allows. I should track it, but that's not currently an option if I wish to keep sleeping in the same bed. She seriously loves that car.

IanF: What needs to be done? I really dig adventure. Ear plugs for sound, rag on a stick to wipe fog off the windshield, what more could I need? Any car I get will be at nationals in Nebraska next fall. You could come co-drive it with me...........

mazdeuce wrote: Ear plugs for sound, rag on a stick to wipe fog off the windshield, what more could I need?

That's how the drive to Tulsa went for EvanB and myself this year.

As far as what car to get, anything that puts a smile on your face will be fine, especially if you're just looking at it as a 'trainer' before you move on to something else. For Stock Class, I would try to pick something that has Bilstein dampers available off the shelf.

In reply to cghstang:

You guys were awesome. And you need better dampers.

Hopefully Evan puts the the Mazdaspeed money towards said dampers and not something frivolous like a car to drive in the winter.

I'll just buy some spring spacers to shove between the coils.

I have some spring spacers. Hell, I have a bunch of bump stops too. I should sent them to you. Back on topic though, who wants to sell me a car. I'm getting antsy.

I'll sell you a 74 Mini, you can drive it backwards.

My wife really wants one of those. Maybe she'd give me the Porsche back.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: I'm driving 'her' car in autocrosses until I get something worked out. It works, but even I can tell that it wants to do everything at greater speeds than autocross allows. I should track it, but that's not currently an option if I wish to keep sleeping in the same bed. She seriously loves that car. IanF: What needs to be done? I really dig adventure. Ear plugs for sound, rag on a stick to wipe fog off the windshield, what more could I need? Any car I get will be at nationals in Nebraska next fall. You could come co-drive it with me...........

'her' car... I feel your pain... that's how I ended up with a berking E30 in the first place...

To be honest... I'm not 100% sure. The car has a brand new battery again, so at least now it can start and move under it's own power, but the engine is not happy. I did a compression test and one cylinder is down - 90 psi vs. 125-170 for the rest. It'll run and drive, but I can tell it's down on power. I thought it was maybe a head gasket, but the coolant (BMW blue) and oil (currently Royal Purple synthetic) still look fine.

I have neither the time nor the desire to dig into it. I'm hoping to put it on eBay in a day or so. If I get a bug of enthusiasm, I may try a leak-down test since I have the tool. If it doesn't meet reserve then I'll take it to a shop I know and pay them to fix it. Or I'll strip it and crush the POS... but it would be nice if the car can go to somebody who will cherish it for the rare survivor it is. Sadly, that person isn't me. Other than the seats and how it looks, there's basically nothing I like about driving an E30.

If I'm being honest, my biggest issue with any E30 (not just mine) is how much stuff has to be "fixed" before it can competently do what I want. I really don't have time to any of that sort of crap, nor do I want to - I have other "project cars" that are more interesting and fun to work on. I want - no, NEED - a car where I can just get in the berking thing and drive. Right now I'm leaning towards an M3. More comfortable than the E30 and it's a car I already 'know' and have experience with. Whether it'll be more reliable is a crap-shoot, and that's my main hesitation. The E30 never went more than a week before something broke, no matter how I drove it.

I would LOVE Evan's MIni for rallycross...