What Car: Learning to wrench edition.

I vote Jeep XJ or VW Van for good combination of fun/holds value/caters to family/caters to windsurfing. Though the VW van wont be cheap.

As for The Trinity. I think that was expanded to The Pentaverate.

Miata: Sports Car
BMW e30: Sports car with back seat
Ford P71: Sports car with 3 car seats
Chevy Astro: family hauling w/ moderate towing capability
Jeep XJ: Off-road

I'll sell you a 94 Volvo 940 wagon, it's auto though.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Ford P71: Sports car

?

Fun muscle car maybe..

I was going to say Triumph Spitfire. $3,000 will get you a decent driver. Mechanically simple, fun to drive, parts are cheap and they're easy to find.

Since you want a four seater I'd suggest a Fiat Spider. Built from 1964 until 1985. Fun to drive, mechanically simple in comparison to new cars, it has a great following and you won't see your cars twin at every cruise night.

Both of these choices come with a rust prone body and delicate electrical systems to keep you occupied.

I'll go a little different here. a Southern Bugeye WRX. Not really depreciating, good year round, old enough to not be too expensive, and fun to drive.

Buy rust free. Nothing will frustrate you more that fighting rusty bolts, when you'd rather be learning.

Appleseed wrote: Buy rust free. Nothing will frustrate you more that fighting rusty bolts, when you'd rather be learning.

It took me years of pure stubborn belief that I could fix anything to reach this conclusion.

Having been in this position myself not too long ago (sans kids but plus a busy work schedule) I have to agree with the brain trust. I ended up with an sw20 mr2 and love the car, but the lack of aftermarket makes it a pain sometimes. I suggest going with my second choice: fox body or sn95 mustang vert. Easy to work on, fun, good parts supply, and the kids will love it for ice cream runs.

I was driving yesterday and saw three,guys cruising down the highway in a red sn95 gt having a blast. Nothing special, just fun.

Runner up: Buick road master wagon. Last of the full size wagons and can be fun in a classic American way.

No basket cases either, find a nice clean car that runs. I did and there is still plenty to do (change all fluids, spark plugs, suspension replacement/upgrade, clutch soon, fix little nuts and polish up the car) and you will have a chance to buy/borrow tools as you need them.

Baja Bug

I've been in your shoes, and largely still am...though I have learned a bit over the past 4 or 5 years. If you're budget is low, like mine has been, most of the cars in your budget won't be super complicated anyway. Make sure it has plenty of room to work. Experienced guys can reach in tight spaces and do it by feel...you (and I) can't. Good forum support is a plus. Beyond that, go have fun. I've bought several cadaver cars over the years...Tracker, Fiat Spyder, Miata (I actually fixed and drove this one) and enjoyed them all.

Even better, hook up with a local LeChump team and even if you can't/don't want to drive, help them wrench. I've been doing that for 3+ years now and have learned a ton doing that. Something always breaks...there's no shortage of opportunity to learn.

I will absolutely look for a vehicle with as little rust as possible. I know that I can't fix it so I will stay away.

I have always wanted a WRX, wait for it....... wagon. A forester XT would be great too. I have seen some WRX automatics sedans going for good prices around here. I may be limiting myself by requiring a manual. I know an auto wrx is sacrilege but it's such a great little car. Eg:

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/cto/5058785015.html

I like the Buick Roadmaster wagons too obviously, a very real possibility as well.

Well, you say you love wagons, so why not a wagon? B-Body wagons are the best. Seriously.

Also, I think we need to do a NEohio meet sometime. We appear to be multiplying.

Wayslow wrote: I was going to say Triumph Spitfire. $3,000 will get you a decent driver. Mechanically simple, fun to drive, parts are cheap and they're easy to find. Since you want a four seater I'd suggest a Fiat Spider. Built from 1964 until 1985. Fun to drive, mechanically simple in comparison to new cars, it has a great following and you won't see your cars twin at every cruise night. Both of these choices come with a rust prone body and delicate electrical systems to keep you occupied.

This. Spitfire was my first thought until I said 2+2.

The Spitfire's bother, the Triumph Herald or Vitesse, was my next thought.

A lot of people say buy carbed because its simpler, but i think if you have the most basic understanding of electricity and you are starting at square one in your education injection is just as easy to learn. Also with injection it is usually either fully right or fully wrong, as compared to carbs which many times end up running sort of okay but never great because of not having a really good carb guy dialing it in. Im not saying dont buy a carb, but dont avoid efi either.

Years ago, I got a hand-me-down car from mom: 1988 Civic DX Sedan. It needed new CV joints, and that was my first real wrenching experience. That led to swapping in rear disc brakes from an Integra. Then swapping in poly bushings. Then upgraded front brakes. Then sway bars. Then strut tower braces. Then a conversion from DPFI to MPFI. Intake. Exhaust. Sticky tires. 5-point harness. Clutch. I can't recommend a car more highly than a Civic, but anything that allows for parts to come from the U-Pull-It or Ebay is a good candidate.

There is a strange feeling when you peer into an engine bay and see exposed cylinders for the first time. What have I done? Will this thing ever run again? But then you start re-assembling and eventually turn that key and hear it fire up. Then you are hooked.

HiTempguy wrote:

NGTD wrote: Head south and get a non-rusty

This is actually the most important point in this thread. A rusty car makes backyard wrenching going from fun/challenging to wanting to completely give up ever doing anything with cars.

Find an Amazon Wagon. Volvo's are one of the few classics that can be driven like real cars.

If you want to be more adventurous, the P1800 is an undervalued classic. But be very aware that they rust and many have been repaired questionably.

Having said that, I will extend the rust warning to any classic; they can look quite nice to the uneducated while harboring mayhem below the paint.

In reply to NOHOME:

When was the last time you looked at P1800 prices? They are now a quite valued classic.

Mid or full size station wagon or sedan, 1968 to 1976 or so. Could be had with manual, or manual can be easily swapped in. They all have some variation of a short long arm suspension up front and a stick axle out back, most can be made to handle decently without much work. Not many want wagons, and nobody likes 4 doors, so they're cheap. Old american car parts are still laughably cheap and readily available too.

What's your budget look like? Give some numbers.

RossD wrote: In reply to NOHOME: When was the last time you looked at P1800 prices? They are now a quite valued classic.

Maybe I should stop cutting them up into pieces then?

Regardless, they fall into that niche that works so well for the smart classic car owner: Buy a REALLY NICE one, take care of it and in five years sell it for what you paid. So really you drive for free regardless of what the cars are worth. But that ploy is for smart people who don't own Sawzalls and welders; what I call boring people.

I was lusting over Turbo Volvo wagons (740 and 940s) and E34 wagons, heck I'd have loved a manual Saturn wagon but I ended up with a auto Saturn sedan instead. As far as wrenching goes, it was very easy, everything was straightforward and accessible, even door panels removed easily. They're cheap, parts are cheap, junkyards are full of them, they get decent gas mileage and aren't total penalty boxes to drive. I sold my sedan awhile back but I'd have another if it was a wagon and stick shift.

Heck, a manual wagon with a bad engine or trans but very good everything else popped up recently on craigslist for scrap price and I had to work very hard to resist.

I think around $3000 would be a good budget.

What about an MGB-GT Smaller 2+2 that can be found cheaply. Wouldnt set the world on fire racing, but would tickle all of the usual vintage brit-car buttons.

I would 2nd old Volvo, but I would go PV544 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Other-Sport-/161749143724

Mustangs are a double edged sword, they are popular. This means lots of parts available, but also high demand. I have done the Mustang thing and I am finding the British car stuff for my sprite is much cheaper with some scrounging for parts. (depends on the car of course)

You might consider looking at something like a 1970's dodge dart if you want the domestic V8 thing, they can be cheaper.

The problem with the Brit stuff is that it is not really suited to much more than show-field stuff. It CAN be driven on today's highways, but its a bit of a hair-shirt experience.

They are easy enough to work on and that is a good thing because due to old age and the craptastic quality of the Chinese parts available, you get a lot of tinkering opportunities.

If I wanted something to learn on, room for kids, opportunity to play as a family a bit, utilitarian enough to be useful......

Go buy that Jeep XJ in the $2015 classified for $1,600. Use your budget for a lift kit and wheels/tires. Learn from the bottom up on one of the simplest most supported brands in the world.