What car: probably not buying, just brainstorming

Here's the deal: we're probably not looking, but we might be. By we I mean my dad and myself. What is the best dual duty daily driver-autocrosser? Obviously Miata is first on the list, we are considering it. But it falls short in a few categories, namely space. We'd like to stay RWD or AWD. Manual a must. We won't be competitive for at least two or three more seasons, so we aren't looking necessarily for the best classed car. We want something thats going to be a ton of fun to drive, that we can learn a lot in, and isn't going to cost us an arm and a leg. An added bonus would be something we could use year round. We actually do have that right now (except for the year-round) with our 318ic, but were just throwing ideas out there for something else. Its that automotive ADD kicking in. We would prefer four seats as well.

So far (after ten minutes of thinking) I've come up with the following:
--Miata
--Another E30, but we probably won't go this route just cause we want to do something different
--Subaru Legacy (wagons rule)
--318ti

What else is there out there? Budget ~4500, and we're keeping it stock.

4500 will get you a VERY nice 318ti. With everything you know about the e30 with some tasty E36 bits thrown in to make it better

I dont see a subaru legacy wagon being a fun autocross car. I have driven a base model one once, and my dad has an outback, but neither handle like a performance car at all. For RWD and that cheap, I think you are looking at miata and bmw. What about whatever the best 318 is that is classed in H-stock? Probably cheaper than a 6, and would be just as much fun on an autocross course.

I've had a JDM GT twin-turbo for a while and while that was a fun mile eater (until it lunched its autobox) it wouldn't be my first choice for something to take around some cones.

I wouldn't go for a 318Ti. Has the E30 rear suspension, non-vented brakes, heavier, and still a 4 cyl.

You can find nice E36 M3s for less than $8k in my parts.

z31maniac wrote: You can find nice E36 M3s for less than $8k in my parts.

So are you proposing he buy the front half or the back half? ($4500 budget)

I am partial to the Gen 1 MR2, if you can find one.
The Gen 1 MR2 is not known as a class dominating car but it sure is fun in it's own way. Lots of space when you consider back trunk and front trunk. Fun daily driver that returns good mpg. The ultimate find is a hardtop car. Sunroofs are popular but not good with a helmet. T-tops allow for your head to stick out if space is an issue.

Sure, there are the second gen MR2's as well.

z31maniac wrote: I wouldn't go for a 318Ti. Has the E30 rear suspension, non-vented brakes, heavier, and still a 4 cyl. You can find nice E36 M3s for less than $8k in my parts.

At approx. 2700lbs, it was the lightest E36 available, aside from the M3 Lightweight.

$4500 will get you into an early LS1 Camaro... or a very clean LT1 Camaro... or a 94-95 5.0 GT Mustang...

...or a 1st Gen RX-7 to autocross AND a P71 to DD

Here's an alternative to the big Legacy Wagon - Bought this for $800 with a bad 2.2L motor:

'99 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport

Added a 2.5L RS motor and it's all kinds of fun even with the slush box. The motors were identical all the way down to the injector part numbers and wiring harness.

mpg is 28 on the highway and 24 running around town.

Ultimate oddball- Milano. Can be autocrossed pretty well, but they are better suited for the track. Killer v6, interesting transaxle, peculular egonomics, Italian rareness. etc.

That's the way out in left field idea. Probably too old of a car, though.

Eric

(where's john to suggest a Merkur?)

+1 for Camaro / Firebird

2 gen Rx-7?

im thinking a solid 1st gen Mr2

ok non-turbo 2nd gen Mr2,

a decent E36

Mk3 GTi (even though its FWD...)

S13 or S14 240

+1 for AW11 MR2.

I was going to suggest a milano too (since I drive one), but it would depend on how much you could work on things yourself. Probably a verde would be the best, becasue of the gearing, extra power and bigger wheels. The 2.5 is geared kinda low for autocross, since they arent easy to shift fast, and you cant go very fast in first gear before you hit the rev limiter.

Travis_K wrote: I was going to suggest a milano too (since I drive one), but it would depend on how much you could work on things yourself. Probably a verde would be the best, becasue of the gearing, extra power and bigger wheels. The 2.5 is geared kinda low for autocross, since they arent easy to shift fast, and you cant go very fast in first gear before you hit the rev limiter.

I would be able to do very little work by myself. Good chance I would have it at college in an apartment parking lot. Reliability is a big deal here.

AE86 GT-S, or S13 240SX. You should be able to find a clean one that hasn't been drifted to hell and back for your budget, especially if you look at the Nissans.

The Corolla has the same engine as the MR2, but is easier to work on, has 4 seats, can be found in a hatchback, will get 30+mpg so long as your commute is 60mph or less, and weighs a couple hundred pounds less than the MR2.

240SX has gobs of aftermarket support, very easy engine-swap upgrade to the SR20DET (easy as in known and readily available parts), also seats 4, and also can also be found in a hatchback.

mtn wrote:

Travis_K wrote: I was going to suggest a milano too (since I drive one), but it would depend on how much you could work on things yourself. Probably a verde would be the best, becasue of the gearing, extra power and bigger wheels. The 2.5 is geared kinda low for autocross, since they arent easy to shift fast, and you cant go very fast in first gear before you hit the rev limiter.

I would be able to do very little work by myself. Good chance I would have it at college in an apartment parking lot. Reliability is a big deal here.

 Most of the work they require isnt difficult, its just that you would be paying many thousands of dollars in labor if you had a shop do it.  If you could handle things like adjusting the valve clearance, changing the timing belt, doing a brake job, etc it wold be fine, otherwise it probably wouldnt be what you are looking for.

Travis_K wrote:

mtn wrote:

Travis_K wrote: I was going to suggest a milano too (since I drive one), but it would depend on how much you could work on things yourself. Probably a verde would be the best, becasue of the gearing, extra power and bigger wheels. The 2.5 is geared kinda low for autocross, since they arent easy to shift fast, and you cant go very fast in first gear before you hit the rev limiter.

I would be able to do very little work by myself. Good chance I would have it at college in an apartment parking lot. Reliability is a big deal here.

Most of the work they require isnt difficult, its just that you would be paying many thousands of dollars in labor if you had a shop do it. If you could handle things like adjusting the valve clearance, changing the timing belt, doing a brake job, etc it wold be fine, otherwise it probably wouldnt be what you are looking for.

Fixed. Not what I'm looking for, I won't have a space or tools to do it if it ends up needing it.

At Sub $4500, it is going to be tuff to find a better car then the Miata. Not sure what you need for year round - I am in Cleveland and can drive my Miata almost all winter with some all seasons on my spare rims.

I would throw out a 944 as a suggestion. You can pick one up for $4500, but any repairs may eat you alive if you have to pay a shop. Or maybe a Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX. My wife has a eclipse FWD turbo, I hated it, but it was great in the snow with snow tires. A AWD GSX maybe a good car to have fun in.

z31maniac wrote: I wouldn't go for a 318Ti. Has the E30 rear suspension, non-vented brakes, heavier, and still a 4 cyl. You can find nice E36 M3s for less than $8k in my parts.

For AutoX the E30 rear based suspension might be better. It is easier to "toss" that suspension around than the multilink Z axle. too many people hate on that suspension set up.. but it served BMW well under the original M3.

As for brakes.. would moving up to the vented rotors and calipers from the 328 bump you up a class? if not, that upgrade is only $100 away on ebay.

E36 328is with LSD

It has a lot of room, good size trunk, makes a very nice daily driver... parts are E30 reasonable and they can really put a hurtin' on the twisties with a shock/spring/sway setup.

If you can find an E36 318i with sports package you are golden. Rare car tho. And only available with the lsd for a few years in the mid 90's before they started putting traction control on them and stopped offering lsd. Fortunately lsd was a stand alone option so if you find a decent car, you can drive it as is and then swap in an lsd when and if you feel it is worth it.

Late '90's Impreza is also a great H stock car. If I remember right the four door is lighter than the two door or wagon, but they are all within 100 lbs or so. I bet Per could tell you for sure.

Either of these options should fit your budget. Just need to be patient enough to find a clean one.

walterj wrote: E36 328is with LSD It has a lot of room, good size trunk, makes a very nice daily driver... parts are E30 reasonable and they can really put a hurtin' on the twisties with a shock/spring/sway setup.

And it's capable of winning STX at nationals if that LSD is a 2.93, and you spend WAY more than $4500 on suspension, wheels, tires, and bolt-ons :). But they certainly are a nice daily driver (see my garage).

Seriously though, the only car even worth bothering with in stock class at that price point is a Miata R in ES. And even then you'd have to budget another $2k for shocks and tires on top of the 5k(ish) for the car if you want to be competitive. But at least you'd end up with a car that is worth close to what you put into it, and maybe more as time goes on.