Knurled wrote:Trackmouse wrote: I know I'm a broken record, but '82-'85 Toyota celica. 500$ all day long.You live on the West Coast, where Toyota had a strong market share and they sold plenty of cars. And no road salt.
I was going to say, good luck finding a RWD Celica in any form for $500, let alone one that has sheetmetal left from the doorhandles down.
gearheadmb wrote:irish44j wrote: Of course, it's just easier if you start with a competitive car in the first place.This basically sums up the point of my long, rambling original post. I suck at driving. But I'm new at it, at least competitively. My plan is to get better. My current car could go faster with some talent in the seat, I will fully admit that. I'm not coming from a viewpoint of "OMG I could win Nats if weren't for my succulent car!" The biggest issue is that I don't have a gas saver work beater. I think it would be a good thing to have. I don't like having a ton of cars to try to keep running. I like to have my fleet as consolidated as possible. I'd rather have two solid cars than a bunch of barely running cars. My beretta can't do daily duty due to a lack of title. When we bought that the theory was that we wouldn't even know if we liked rallycross so we bought the cheapest car we could find that would do the job. Now I know its a ton of fun and I'd like to continue. So with consolidation in mind I figured rally car/beater car double duty would be a good route. This time it would be nice to find a car that itself is good at rallycross, so if someday I suck less I may be able to keep up with the herd. It may be a while before I act on this, but I like to have a plan in place so I can start educating myself on a certain model so I know what to look for. I'm liking a lot of what I'm hearing. Civics, focus and neons are a possibility. There are plenty around here available. As far as the BG escorts, I know a lot of people like them, I just can't remember the last time I saw one in the wild with any life left. I've seen my share of cheap bmw's around, and they are supposed to be a good answer for rwd fun but they scare me.
They shouldn't scare you. My '85 318i has done 5 seasons of rallycross (close to 50 total events) plus a couple stage rallies, a few autocrosses, and a little bit on the track. Granted it's an MR-prepped car, but in terms of drivetrain/engine/steering it's all original e30 with few upgrades, and a pretty basic suspension. It has finished 100% of motorsports events it has entered and I think in all that time the only thing I've ever had go wrong at an event was a cracked coolant hose and a bad relay, which can happen in any car. They have a few things to take care of up front depending on model (M42 4-cyl cars need to have timing rails checked if not already upgraded), but between this car (a 318i with the M42 from the 1991 318is) and our 1986 325e chumpcar (which has been pretty bulletproof in enduro racing)....not many problems. We have a good half-dozen e30s as regulars at our rallycrosses and rarely do any of them have any problems relative to the amount of beating they take.
Plus in stock class they are pretty competitive out of the box, cheap if you find the 4-cyl cars (btw, mine gets around 35mpg highway), and parts are amazingly cheap (like....way cheaper than parts for my Toyota or Subaru). I'd have no problem daily driving mine if it didn't have a stripped interior, race seats, and a full rally cage, lol.
Still may not be your thing, but I wouldn't be scared of them. Way easier to work on than most FWD cars and they're built tough. Go find a 1991 318is and you'll be competitive right off the bat and still have a good commuter car getting good mpg's. I was skeptical for years about e30s until I actually got one.
Duke wrote:Knurled wrote:I was going to say, good luck finding a RWD Celica in any form for $500, let alone one that has sheetmetal left from the doorhandles down.Trackmouse wrote: I know I'm a broken record, but '82-'85 Toyota celica. 500$ all day long.You live on the West Coast, where Toyota had a strong market share and they sold plenty of cars. And no road salt.
Nonack here had an '80s Celica for rallycross. He's a very fast driver but even so that car was not very competitive in stock form. Also I remember something about him bending both front control arms in his very first event with it. He didn't keep it for very long...
In reply to irish44j:
I saw a cheap 6 cyl e30 that i told myself i wasnt going to call about. Youre not helping me not call.
It's at this point that I'd like to point out that every time I drive an Alero, I think of how neat a rallycrosser it could be.
Same for latemodel Cavaliers, especially the ones with the Ecotec. Cobalts too.
But mainly Aleros. There's SO much I could do with one in Prepared.
gearheadmb wrote: In reply to irish44j: I saw a cheap 6 cyl e30 that i told myself i wasnt going to call about. Youre not helping me not call.
I am trying to help you toward the fun side :)
Also the nice thing about e30s is that there are two very extensive e30 rally build threads on here, both cars which have won quite a bit at the regional and divisional levels. So all of the tips and tricks are there for the reading ;)
Dont' rule out the 4cyl cars: they don't get hit with the e30 "tax" (especially earlier M10 cars). You will get killed at the stoplight by minivans, but they're a much more balanced car than the 6-cyl cars and are just as fast in rallycross (especially M42 cars), IMO.
Knurled wrote: It's at this point that I'd like to point out that every time I drive an Alero, I think of how neat a rallycrosser it could be. Same for latemodel Cavaliers, especially the ones with the Ecotec. Cobalts too. But mainly Aleros. There's SO much I could do with one in Prepared.
curious as to what is special about the Alero that would make it a good rallycrosser (seriously).?
In reply to irish44j:
One of our sites' owners runs a 318i.
Knurled wrote: In reply to irish44j: One of our sites' owners runs a 318i.
Yep, Scott is part of our e30 rally facebook group (which has like 275 members - most of whom actually rally/rallycross e30s).
irish44j wrote: But mainly Aleros. There's SO much I could do with one in Prepared.
curious as to what is special about the Alero that would make it a good rallycrosser (seriously).?
Rally tires will fit and clear extremely easily. They usually aren't as generally trashed as Malibus/Classics shell-wise (and why do thy all rust out at the fuel door??), aren't covered with rust-generating plastic like Grand Ams, and somewhat remind me of Xsara WRCs in two door trim. (Somewhat) They have good handling, decently quick steering (2.6 turns lock-lock), lightweight aluminum knuckles and calipers, can be had with the Ecotec or the 3100/3400, and if you get an automatic, the Prepared class rules allow you to hack the computer and you can alter the shift schedule however you see fit. Full manual control, automatic control that keeps the engine in a certain gear at a certain speed no matter what you're doing with the throttle, etc. Or, if you are so inclined, you can find Ecotec/5sp models too.
Ayup, I could do a lot of interesting things with an Alero.
I'd also look for an early Civic or CRX (think 88-91ish) just because of how light and well-supported they are. It helps that a CRX beat my friend's SRT4 at Nationals in PF last year (on the last run too!).
I'd look at Nationals results for the past several years and pick a platform that consistently shows up. CRXs, Civics, and Neons are good. Miatas are good. RX-7s have done well in the past and probably could again (however, gas mileage and magic triangles).
I'd say Miata over RX-7, Nationally. The courses are trending to finesse courses that favor handling over power. I've always supplanted a lack of handling with an excess of power. It's worked for a long time but I don't see it working much longer.
Front wheel drive is always handling over power. In Iowa I was adjusting the boost up or down before every run as the grip got better or worse. I usually went faster with less power.
irish44j wrote:Duke wrote:Nonack here had an '80s Celica for rallycross. He's a very fast driver but even so that car was not very competitive in stock form. Also I remember something about him bending both front control arms in his very first event with it. He didn't keep it for very long...Knurled wrote:I was going to say, good luck finding a RWD Celica in any form for $500, let alone one that has sheetmetal left from the doorhandles down.Trackmouse wrote: I know I'm a broken record, but '82-'85 Toyota celica. 500$ all day long.You live on the West Coast, where Toyota had a strong market share and they sold plenty of cars. And no road salt.
It was somewhat competitive in SR, but not at all in MR. And yes, I bent both steering arms (the ones attaching the tie rod to the knuckle) at the first event... and then again at the next event, and again plus ripping the trunk latch out of the metal at the event after that. I rallycrossed it three times before I decided it made a better daily driver and I should stop trying to murder it.
If you want an old Toyota I'd recommend an 80s MR2 instead, mine was much more competitive in SR than any of my other stock-ish cars, never broke, and got close to 40mpg.
Knurled wrote: It's at this point that I'd like to point out that every time I drive an Alero, I think of how neat a rallycrosser it could be. Same for latemodel Cavaliers, especially the ones with the Ecotec. Cobalts too. But mainly Aleros. There's SO much I could do with one in Prepared.
Its interesting that you mention these. In this area you cant walk outside without tripping over a cheap cavalier for sale. Its a lot easier to find a manual cav than a manual alero. I didnt even know that option existed. I will have to do a little research on how much power the ecotec has. I know power isnt nearly as important as handling in rallyx but my old style 2.2 i have now is such a dog. I would love to have some more pickup. Are the attributes you mention about the alero the same in a cavalier?
What about the ecotech powered saturn ions? The plastic panels may be bad for it but the drivelines seem durable. My wifes is amusing to drive even with the cvt made from glass. Im guessing an ion/cavilier with a 5spd would be plenty for rallycross powerwise.
If looking compact gm, cobalt ss or ion redline for limited slip as much as the bump in power. The other GM vehicles mentioned woulD marginally better the the Berretta currently is and thus are not the answer.
captdownshift wrote: The other GM vehicles mentioned woulD marginally better the the Berretta currently is and thus are not the answer.
Yeah, according to wikipedia going from my old school 2.2 to the regular ecotec is a change from 120 to 140 hp. Not a huge gain. The 3.1 was around 160 hp, so that would be about a 33% increase. Not bad. As i keep reading I am seeing the 3.4 ranged from 170 to 185 hp. Now were getting somewhere. It came in the grand am and (guess what) Alero. I'm still not sure if the those cars had a manual trans with the v-6 available, even if they did, trying to find one would be a trick.
I know this is taking a big step sideways from the intent of the original post, but now I'm starting to feel like I should swap one of the 185hp 3.4 engines from a venture van into the beretta. We had talked about a supercharged 3800 swap, but these cars came from the factory with a 2.8/3.1, so the 3.4 should be easy in comparison, and the minivan motor should be super easy to find.
In reply to Knurled:
At first I was thinking Aurora instead of Alero and that was putting hilarious images in my head. Big, FWD, V8, air-suspended luxury car bouncing around offroad. Our local Rallycross chapter had someone who mopped up with a Quad 4/manual Achieva.
In reply to NickD:
I have stories... 
Relevant to thread. Go to this link and buy that car. That car. Fix whatever is wrong with it, and there are many resources available to you in the Columbus-Dayton-Cincy region to get it running right for pennies since you're now One Of Us. And drive it and enjoy decent fuel economy and a dang good platform for rallycrossing.
I'm partial to a Mk1 Focus, cheap to get parts for and there's a giant aftermarket, plus if you desire more power there not hard to turbo or swap an SVT head and ECU into
What's the consensus on the cavalier? There is a rallycross cavalier build on these boards in which other cavalier owners poo-poo'ed the idea due to lack of suspension travel, and weight (cavalier owner states his car tipped 3000 lbs on scales).
I wish the Saturn differentials wouldn't take a dump in the dirt - seems like they would otherwise be a nice rallycross option (ubiquitous, cheap, plastic body panels). I don't even search for GM on Craigslist anymore.
In reply to DocV:
there are absolutely ZERO reasons to consider a cavalier when compared to a BG chassis Mazda or Escort GT. The BG cars run about 2200lb, have roughly 9" of suspension travel, there is a OE differential option available to swap in if you run kia sephia axles, or aftermarket limited slip. Megasquirt plug and plug or hacked EVO ecus, Toyota coil on plug conversions, exhaust cams swaps, all make north of 150HP capable NA from the 1.8L DOHC BP motor, or you can got turbo and boost it to the moon, seriously north of 400hp with rods that cost $220, though you'd be looking at pricey gearbox upgrades at that point.
Whether wanting to run stock or to build a monster, there's nowhere that the cavalier holds a candle to it.
DocV wrote: What's the consensus on the cavalier? Their is a rallycross cavalier build on these boards in which other cavalier owners poo-poo'ed the idea due to lack of suspension travel, and weight (cavalier owner states his car tipped 3000 lbs on scales). I wish the Saturn differentials wouldn't take a dump in the dirt - seems like they would otherwise be a nice rallycross option (ubiquitous, cheap, plastic body panels). I don't even search for GM on Craigslist anymore.
Yeah, that's me. We did run the car, in fact it came in second in SF. I only ditched the thing becuase it was literally falling apart at the seams from rust, and we bent the body so bad the front windshield and sunroof won't seal. Cavaliers can make Okay rallycross cars, but they are a PITA to work on, not all that powerful, and heavy. But, they will take a berkeley ton of abuse and keep going until the whole car falls apart all at once
In reply to Gaunt596:
yours did make for one of the best for sell posting on Facebook once you were done with it.
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