What car? Rallyx daily gas saver.

Knurled wrote: In reply to NickD: I have stories... Relevant to thread. Go to this link and buy that car. That car. Fix whatever is wrong with it, and there are many resources available to you in the Columbus-Dayton-Cincy region to get it running right for pennies since you're now One Of Us. And drive it and enjoy decent fuel economy and a dang good platform for rallycrossing.

berkeley dude. That is nice. I have to work late tonight so getting the cash, a trailer, and getting to columbus tonight isnt going to happen. And i doubt it will still be available tomorrow. But still, dang.

Edit; text sent. What does a person look out for on one of these? Where does the terminal rust hide?

DocV wrote: What's the consensus on the cavalier? Their is a rallycross cavalier build on these boards in which other cavalier owners poo-poo'ed the idea due to lack of suspension travel, and weight (cavalier owner states his car tipped 3000 lbs on scales).

I think we can all agree that nothing is more 'murican than RallyCrossing a Cavalier.

gearheadmb wrote: Edit; text sent. What does a person look out for on one of these? Where does the terminal rust hide?

Terminal rust hides everywhere. Look for rod knocks and Monster stickers.

He stopped responding to my texts this morning, I don't know if it is sold or he is terrible at selling a car.

captdownshift wrote: In reply to Gaunt596: yours did make for one of the best for sell posting on Facebook once you were done with it.

I did my best, it was the least I could do for it

Kylini wrote:

DocV wrote: What's the consensus on the cavalier? Their is a rallycross cavalier build on these boards in which other cavalier owners poo-poo'ed the idea due to lack of suspension travel, and weight (cavalier owner states his car tipped 3000 lbs on scales).

I think we can all agree that nothing is more 'murican than RallyCrossing a Cavalier.

I know right? I want to like it because it is made in the same place I was (Lordstown Ohio!). Is the Cobalt any good?

Cobalt is the same chassis as the Ion. Funny story about that. When they made the Ion, they took a Euro chassis and cheapified the hell out of it. It sucked. Hard. When they made the Cobalt, they took that chassis and undid all the cheapifying.

The Cobalt is actually a really nice car. It's on my shortlist if I ever have to replace teh Volvo. (Always keep a shortlist. If you find yourself needing a car, like, NOW, you already know what you want to look for.)

Avoid the SS. I only say this because, unless you want to run Mod, you have to keep 90% of the crap that makes an SS a pain to rallycross, and the extra power over a standard Cobalt isn't really going to help much. And if you run Stock, you're stuck with those 18" wheels that weigh about 50lb each, unless you buy aftermarket 18" wheels (of that exact width) and that isn't going to be cheap and you're still stuck with whatever rubberband tires you have to run.

gearheadmb wrote: </citeWhat does a person look out for on one of these? Where does the terminal rust hide?

I haven't seen a GC rust to failure yet, but they always rust first in the rear wheelwell "outside" the rear strut tower. Subaru put a kind of shelf in the outer inner fender stamping, that collects dirt, which holds moisture and abrades the paint, and it isn't long before you can reach through the inner fender.

This isn't really a deal breaker. Almost all GCs and GDs remaining in northern Ohio have rust-through there and have had so for many years. I think Ed's WRX is still solid there, but he's south.

It's also just about impossible to fix without unzipping the quarter panel so you can access it, so the most you can do is say "Oh well, the dang car was only $700, the transmission is worth more than that"

In reply to Knurled:

SS, and nokians on factory wheels for stock. It's as much about the limited slip as it is about the power.

That being said, going to prepared or modified with the SS to downsize to 15" wheels would be pretty sweet. Some of the SRT4 guys in Rally America did that about a decade ago and it was a hoot.

In reply to captdownshift:

The Cobalt SSs that I have worked on (I did heads on TWO of them for a used-car lot that specialized in performance cars that bought non-runners at auction) all had open diffs.

An SRT4 placed 2nd and 3rd in PF at Nationals this year. (And since they were Strictly Holding Run Order in 2016, that meant we had to wait for the first driver to make a run, and then a driver change, and then the second driver made their run, before we could proceed. Prior years you just got the car changed over as quick as possible, "proper" run order be damned)

On those super ultra chunky Indy Sport mud tires. First place was a guy in a second generation CRX on baldish snow tires. Food for thought

Power means little in front wheel drive...

Funny story about that used car lot. They bought a Trailblazer SS with a bad engine for cheap. Wanted an estimate for replacement. We found an engine a few states away and came up with an estimate of $8000. The dealership guy blanched so hard I heard it and I was 20 feet away from the phone. "But I thought you could pick those engines up for $300." No, not a TBSS engine.

Knurled wrote: I'd say Miata over RX-7, Nationally. The courses are trending to finesse courses that favor handling over power. I've always supplanted a lack of handling with an excess of power. It's worked for a long time but I don't see it working much longer.

I would suggest looking at the top dogs at the top regional rallycross groups as well as nationals. Look at Ohio Valley and a few other GLDiv regions, look at New England, look at Washington DC. All strong RWD crowds. Also you get full seasons of examples, not just one single weekend where conditions or tires or luck or a mechanical can be the decider.

Nationals is one data point - but it's also a matter of "who is willing to tow/drive 12-20 hours for 10 rallycross runs. The answer from our region: No RWD cars have gone in the last 5+ years to my knowledge. And e30s in our region are currently 5-1 in recent years against the last two Miatas that won MR at nationals (Evan and John England and Pete in the RX7), as far as I recall. And any of those guys could beat me/us if we met again, and so forth. We just don't care to go 20 hours to Nebraska....so we'll never know "who would win at nationals." I suspect ALL of us will be together at Eastern Challenge again this year, and they all owe me some payback, so I'll probably finish 5th now that I said that I said that lol.

Bottom line: it's all data points. Look at long-term trends and you'll see that e30s/e36s and MR2s are certainly equals to the Miatas and RX7s in PR/MR classes. It's also a matter of what you drive better, what you fit in better, etc. All have their strong and weak points, but it usually comes down to the driver, less mistakes, what the course is like, and the best tire choice. Don't overthink it, this isn't autocross.

*note: Pete and Evan are Mazda guys - so Mazda is usually the answer for them. I am a e30 guy, so that's usually gonna be the answer for me. Nonack is the "weird car" guy, so he'll never pick either of those lol...

**note2: two more freaking weeks before our next rally, so all I can do it talk about it online :/

DocV wrote: What's the consensus on the cavalier? There is a rallycross cavalier build on these boards in which other cavalier owners poo-poo'ed the idea due to lack of suspension travel, and weight (cavalier owner states his car tipped 3000 lbs on scales).

He runs in our region. I believe he is getting rid of that car and has gotten something else (I forget what). My only memory of seeing it running had to do with his wheel flying off mid-course due to metal fatigue, lol...

irish44j wrote:

Knurled wrote: I'd say Miata over RX-7, Nationally. The courses are trending to finesse courses that favor handling over power. I've always supplanted a lack of handling with an excess of power. It's worked for a long time but I don't see it working much longer.

I would suggest looking at the top dogs at the top regional rallycross groups rather than nationals. Look at Ohio Valley and a few other GLDiv regions, look at New England, look at Washington DC. All strong RWD crowds. Also you get full seasons of examples, not just one single weekend where conditions or tires or luck or a mechanical can be the decider.

I would like to point out that I have been rallycrossing with WOR since 2004, when they were the only rallycrossin' region within relatively easy drivin' distance, and for quite a few years I was the ONLY person running a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Does this make me a hipster because I was doing it before it was cool? Don't know, don't care, we all just out there havin' fun.

I should ALSO like to point out that, if there were a RWD vehicle that is specific to Ohio, it's the Miata. We have two MR National Champions in Ohio and we have a few more people who regularly or currently run Miatas.

Given my history, I'd like to think that I had a part in helping that happen, either by showing how fun RWD can be to run, or just being fast enough locally that everyone else had to keep up. But in reality I remember as late as 2010-2011, commenting with the only other person who really ran M2 in our region, "Man, if anyone fast ever shows up, we're screwed" He (Paktinat) and I were usually dicing for whoever got DFL, didn't care, we're havin' fun.

When we ran the GLDiv thing this year in Detroit, I think almost all of the RWD cars that weren't Porsches or IS200/E36s were Miatas. It's kind of funny, a friend of mine up there ran Civics for a long time, had a (EG?) Civic hatch with a B20 and a supercharged B20 that was just plain insanely fast, now he has a Miata. With a supercharger now, and a PCM with a firmware that he wrote in his spare time...

irish44j wrote:

Duke wrote:

Knurled wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: I know I'm a broken record, but '82-'85 Toyota celica. 500$ all day long.

You live on the West Coast, where Toyota had a strong market share and they sold plenty of cars. And no road salt.

I was going to say, good luck finding a RWD Celica in any form for $500, let alone one that has sheetmetal left from the doorhandles down.

Nonack here had an '80s Celica for rallycross. He's a very fast driver but even so that car was not very competitive in stock form. Also I remember something about him bending both front control arms in his very first event with it. He didn't keep it for very long...

I'm in touch with the kid who bought it and...no, durable is not a word i would use for those cars.

Knurled wrote:

irish44j wrote:

Knurled wrote: I'd say Miata over RX-7, Nationally. The courses are trending to finesse courses that favor handling over power. I've always supplanted a lack of handling with an excess of power. It's worked for a long time but I don't see it working much longer.

I would suggest looking at the top dogs at the top regional rallycross groups rather than nationals. Look at Ohio Valley and a few other GLDiv regions, look at New England, look at Washington DC. All strong RWD crowds. Also you get full seasons of examples, not just one single weekend where conditions or tires or luck or a mechanical can be the decider.

I would like to point out that I have been rallycrossing with WOR since 2004, when they were the only rallycrossin' region within relatively easy drivin' distance, and for quite a few years I was the ONLY person running a rear wheel drive vehicle. Does this make me a hipster because I was doing it before it was cool? Don't know, don't care, we all just out there havin' fun. I should ALSO like to point out that, if there were a RWD vehicle that is specific to Ohio, it's the Miata. We have two MR National Champions in Ohio and we have a few more people who regularly or currently run Miatas. Given my history, I'd like to think that I had a part in helping that happen, either by showing how fun RWD can be to run, or just being fast enough locally that everyone else had to keep up. But in reality I remember as late as 2010-2011, commenting with the only other person who really ran M2 in our region, "Man, if anyone fast ever shows up, we're screwed" He (Paktinat) and I were usually dicing for whoever got DFL, didn't care, we're havin' fun. When we ran the GLDiv thing this year in Detroit, I think almost all of the RWD cars that weren't Porsches or IS200/E36s were Miatas. It's kind of funny, a friend of mine up there ran Civics for a long time, had a (EG?) Civic hatch with a B20 and a supercharged B20 that was just plain insanely fast, now he has a Miata. With a supercharger now, and a PCM with a firmware that he wrote in his spare time...

Hey, I was complimenting GLDIv/Ohio on being fast, it wasn't a dig! Hell, when I started rallycross 6+ years ago, I did my "research" about the list of people on this side of the country that I wanted to go against to see if I could beat them.....and you were one of the top names on that list. My first year at WDCR I think there were about 8 cars combined in all the RWD classes (when we'd have 50+ car events at Summit Point). Shawn Roberts and Roberto Moreton dominated those two classes in their RX7s then (I lost to both of them in consecutive season championships in my M10 e30). Shawn now drives a Miata (well, he owns like 4 of them at least) and is still, in my opinion, one of the best rallycrossers in the nation - and I get to watch him every event for the last 5 years (thankfully in another class!). I think I've run directly against Shawn (in his RX7 or Miata) in about 15 events, and beaten him exactly ONE time........

These days we get 20+ RWD cars at any given event (half of which are e30s, a few Volvos, a few Miatas, and a few random stuff). Hell, most of our events have at least as many RWD cars as Subarus! Like you did, we tried to show how much fun it was and recruited a lot of new people into the group (primarily BMW/Volvo guys, but some others as well).

I think there must be more of a "Miata Tax" around here or something, since there is a huge autocross scene and several road racing tracks nearby. That, or Shawn owns all of them already, lol. I have heard that we have a couple new MR Miatas planning to run this full season though.

Also, I may attribute the lack of e30s in GLDIv to two main factors:

1. They simply aren't as common on CL around there as here on the east coast.
2. They rust away in the salt belt.

Also, we all know you were a hipster before it was cool, Pete

irish44j wrote: Hey, I was complimenting GLDIv/Ohio on being fast, it wasn't a dig!

Didn't take it as a dig

I guess in a roundabout way that if you want to "look at regional results instead of national", it NEEDs to be pointed out that, for EVERY year that MR existed as a National event, when Ohioans came out in MR, Ohio has populated the podium if not the top spot with Miatas. 2012 - Ohio Miata 2nd and 4th, RX-7 3rd. (Winner in a borrowed Ohio car) 2013 - Ohio Miata a very close 2nd. 2014 - Miata 1st, RX-7 3rd (borrowed 2nd). 2015 - Bye year. 2016 - Miata 1st.

Somehow, for one reason or another, we got strong in MR.

irish44j wrote: Also, I may attribute the lack of e30s in GLDIv to two main factors: 1. They simply aren't as common on CL around there as here on the east coast. 2. They rust away in the salt belt. Also, we all know you were a hipster before it was cool, Pete

E30s are stupid expensive to find around here, although I still want to find a 1995 M3 to rallycross. (Or any E36-notafilter-M3 that wasn't a bleedin' convertible!!) Wouldn't want it as a daily driver, I much prefer the way front wheel drive when it comes to the point and squirt driving required in traffic and the feeling of being led through a maneuver instead of fighting the front wheels pushing.

In reply to Knurled:

I agree that power isn't paramount, but it makes a difference. Suspension travel, wheelbase, weight, the ability to put the power down (via gearing, tire, or differential), power output are the order of importance to me. Balance of chassis doesn't matter as much as it does on the track or in autocross or even stage rally, as left foot braking can compensate for chassis balance sins.

Regarding power and putting it down, 1st Gen 16v neons, GC 2.5RS and B13 Sentra SE-Rs used to frequently win FTD with WDCR. Yet 8V neons, non SE-R B13s and Impreza L's and Brightons never did. The moderate, but not major bump in power and the ability to put it down (2.5RS gearing and SE-R limited slip; I'm not aware of any changed to the Neon R/T other then the 16v) made a difference in performance ability. My 1st year I was in 1st place in PA in my STi on snow tires when a co-driver wrapped it around a tree, I didn't even know what I was doing yet, and though I wasn't as fast as the fastest FWD cars, the AWD guys in modified who were beating me, and the one guy in PA who beat me when he showed up, all ran proper gravel rubber and had 5+ years of rallycross experience. The HP, torque and fancy differentials are what was making me competitive, not my ability. Power isn't the end all be all, but if it's available within the same chassis with the same cylinder count, it's foolish not to take it unless it involves taking on a weird hub bolt pattern, or a transmission made of glass.

RedGT wrote:

irish44j wrote:

Duke wrote:

Knurled wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: I know I'm a broken record, but '82-'85 Toyota celica. 500$ all day long.

You live on the West Coast, where Toyota had a strong market share and they sold plenty of cars. And no road salt.

I was going to say, good luck finding a RWD Celica in any form for $500, let alone one that has sheetmetal left from the doorhandles down.

Nonack here had an '80s Celica for rallycross. He's a very fast driver but even so that car was not very competitive in stock form. Also I remember something about him bending both front control arms in his very first event with it. He didn't keep it for very long...

I'm in touch with the kid who bought it and...no, durable is not a word i would use for those cars.

To be fair, I sold it to him with full disclosure that it had begun disintegrating- has he been having issues with it?

captdownshift wrote: In reply to Knurled: I agree that power isn't paramount, but it makes a difference. Suspension travel, wheelbase, weight, the ability to put the power down (via gearing, tire, or differential), power output are the order of importance to me. Balance of chassis doesn't matter as much as it does on the track or in autocross or even stage rally, as left foot braking can compensate for chassis balance sins. Regarding power and putting it down, 1st Gen 16v neons, GC 2.5RS and B13 Sentra SE-Rs used to frequently win FTD with WDCR. Yet 8V neons, non SE-R B13s and Impreza L's and Brightons never did. The moderate, but not major bump in power and the ability to put it down (2.5RS gearing and SE-R limited slip; I'm not aware of any changed to the Neon R/T other then the 16v) made a difference in performance ability. My 1st year I was in 1st place in PA in my STi on snow tires when a co-driver wrapped it around a tree, I didn't even know what I was doing yet, and though I wasn't as fast as the fastest FWD cars, the AWD guys in modified who were beating me, and the one guy in PA who beat me when he showed up, all ran proper gravel rubber and had 5+ years of rallycross experience. The HP, torque and fancy differentials are what was making me competitive, not my ability. Power isn't the end all be all, but if it's available within the same chassis with the same cylinder count, it's foolish not to take it unless it involves taking on a weird hub bolt pattern, or a transmission made of glass.

Let me tell you about how a ton of excess power and left foot braking can make a mediocre driver on bad suspension look good.

In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:

He knows he is trying to daily drive and drift a car that has 'begun disentegrating'. He is happy with it but I wouldn't recommend that someone go out and buy one to beat on. I believe he has another one now too, red hatchback.

captdownshift wrote: In reply to Knurled: I agree that power isn't paramount, but it makes a difference. Suspension travel, wheelbase, weight, the ability to put the power down (via gearing, tire, or differential), power output are the order of importance to me. Balance of chassis doesn't matter as much as it does on the track or in autocross or even stage rally, as left foot braking can compensate for chassis balance sins. Regarding power and putting it down, 1st Gen 16v neons, GC 2.5RS and B13 Sentra SE-Rs used to frequently win FTD with WDCR. Yet 8V neons, non SE-R B13s and Impreza L's and Brightons never did. The moderate, but not major bump in power and the ability to put it down (2.5RS gearing and SE-R limited slip; I'm not aware of any changed to the Neon R/T other then the 16v) made a difference in performance ability. My 1st year I was in 1st place in PA in my STi on snow tires when a co-driver wrapped it around a tree, I didn't even know what I was doing yet, and though I wasn't as fast as the fastest FWD cars, the AWD guys in modified who were beating me, and the one guy in PA who beat me when he showed up, all ran proper gravel rubber and had 5+ years of rallycross experience. The HP, torque and fancy differentials are what was making me competitive, not my ability. Power isn't the end all be all, but if it's available within the same chassis with the same cylinder count, it's foolish not to take it unless it involves taking on a weird hub bolt pattern, or a transmission made of glass.

Most (if not all) 16V 5 speed Neons have a 3.94 final drive. I think all SOHC 1st gen Neons, except for ACR Sedans, have a 3.55 final drive.

But yeah, power still definitely makes a difference in fwd. Back when we were still about equally good drivers, wae would routinely put 1.5-2 seconds on me per run with his turbo neon vs my 2.0 DOHC.

In reply to eastsidemav:

That gearing likely makes as much if not more of a difference, as it does with the 2.5RS subarus, and when I had the sti. I also had gearing as part of putting the power down and ahead of power output in order of importance, getting both together is even better. Though now I'm curious about the gearing differences of the SS cobalt versus the non SS.

Sidenote: I really hope that someone comes out with a decent limited slip for the turbo Kia Rio, and Hyundai Accent (as I've heard that it's getting the turbo treatment soon) as there aren't many new fwd cars outside of fiestas and sonics that appear to lend themselves to rallycross. In 5 years when 1st gen focuses start becoming as rare as B13 sentras, FX-16s and 16v neons are today, we'll need other chassis options available.

3.82 in the non SS and 4.05 in the SS

Interestingly enough apparently in 07 they made a 2.4L Naturally aspirated cobalt sport with the 4.05 and revamped suspension, that could actually be the hot setup for rallycross, of looking to avoid the SS tax or questionably modified cars.