What Car? Track Rats

I'm gonna buck the trend and say that I think an EK Civic or similar would be a really good option. Stripped for track, with not much power, and on R-Comps, you're not going to care all that much which end the power is at. FWD might not be the best platform for a high-performance daily driver that sees a lot of track time (although it's still plenty of fun and I daily a small FWD car), but a prepared, dedicated FWD track car is tons of fun, and I personally find that I enjoy a car that's a little less "interesting" to drive because it lets me concentrate more on my lap and on racing.

I vote whatever you can tolerate, in your budget, that's already built, and comes with spares...

pimpm3 wrote: Buy someone elses track car. The market sucks for them right now, and you can pick up a heck of a deal or half of what it would cost to build it your self.

This! You can find some steals on track cars. I will throw in my vote behind a Civic. Incredible parts support, cheap consumables, good suspension and good engines. Ignore the fail wheel drive E36 M3 people say.

Ah, yes. A subject I have debated internally and with others for quite some time now. I agree with the "RWD is better" sentiment, though I wouldn't completely rule out FWD, some of them handle quite nicely, and if the right deal were to come along, I wouldn't turn it down. That said:

E30: Still seems like the best choice when you factor in coolness. RWD with a reasonably powerful and torquey engine, decent suspension layout, huge aftermarket, tons of online support, and a spec racing series to provide knowledge and spares. Small enough that you can run it on 15" wheels for nice, cheap tires. Light enough that it won't eat those tires (and brake pads) for lunch.

E36: Probably the most logical choice. They seem to be pretty easy to find, especially the earlier OBD1 cars, for cheap. Cheaper than E30s, and they have better brakes, more power, better rear suspension, and many other advantages. Disadvantages would be that they look like 90s bland-mobiles (and yes, I include my M3), and they are heavier than E30s.

Miata: It is a good choice, though I have to agree with you on them. They just don't do it for me. I had one, I don't see myself ever going back. The problem with tracking one is that you absolutely have to have a bar, which immediately creates compromises in a car with such a small passenger area to begin with. IMO, convertibles don't make good track cars. I'd rather have an actual roof over my head.

924/944: Great looks, good suspension, very proven, can be found for reasonable money if you look. The issue here, as others have said, is the cost of keeping it running. Some consumables aren't too bad, but some of them will make your jaw drop.

Escort ZX2: Probably not a bad idea, though I don't know how the aftermarket is. You might even be able to score an early Focus for this kind of money, which is a very fun car with lots of aftermarket support and bolt-on SVT parts. My only concern there would be that it seems like it would be kind of top-heavy for track work. That, and the availability of LSDs.

Civic: I honestly don't know much about them except that Honda builds good stuff and the aftermarket is huge.

Capt Slow wrote: AW11 MR2. CHEAP to buy, cheap to run. Fun to drive.

But impossible to find...aftermarket's not great either for anything but engine mods.

Another vote for the Mustang. Maximum Motorsports has a variety of "Boxes" they sell that are basically staged suspension kits. IE Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. They are all parts that work together and are engineered as such. the 1987 and 1988 Mustangs are Speed Density cars and are a pain in the ass to tune. Go with an 89-93 for Mass air. Or, if you can find a 1985 car, that was the last year of the carb and first year of the roller lifters. Most desired of the Fox Bodies. I think it was 91 or 92 they had decent forged pistons. I'm sure someone will correct me on that. Anyway, very little needs to be done to make it a good handling, powerful, track demon.

Fixed for ya...

aussiesmg wrote: My current track rats 66 Mongo Bus 84 RX7 5.0 82 3rd Gen Camaro RS 86 Mustang LX 96 Chev S10 406 The Mustang has the easiest sourced and simplest to install aftermarket suspension upgrades I have ever come across.

Conquest351 wrote: Another vote for the Mustang. Maximum Motorsports has a variety of "Boxes" they sell that are basically staged suspension kits. IE Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. They are all parts that work together and are engineered as such. the 1987 and 1988 Mustangs are Speed Density cars and are a pain in the ass to tune. Go with an 89-93 for Mass air. Or, if you can find a 1985 car, that was the last year of the carb and first year of the roller lifters. Most desired of the Fox Bodies. I think it was 91 or 92 they had decent forged pistons. I'm sure someone will correct me on that. Anyway, very little needs to be done to make it a good handling, powerful, track demon.

I've been down the Fox Mustang road more than once. They are fine cars with a ton of potential, and thanks to the aftermarket, you can make one into pretty much whatever you want it to be. I will pick a few nits with your post, though. While I do love the 85 for it's looks, the 86 is in many ways more desirable. It had the 8.8 rear end, while the 85 still had the 7.5. It has factory fuel injection, so it's much easier to use the plethora of intake options available for the later cars, though you would want to convert it to mass air, of course. And it looks the same as the 85. Yes, the heads are garbage, but E7 heads are literally a dime a dozen.

From memory, Mustangs had forged pistons until partway through the 92 model year, I think? Then they switched to hypereutectic. Not an issue, IMO. I know many people with later Fox and SN95 cars that are boosted to the moon for tens of thousands of miles on hypers with no problem at all. Plus, they seal better.

On the topic of the MM "boxes", it's all good stuff that's well built and works, but it's not cheap. It's quite easy to spend more than the value of the car on MM suspension bits. My point being that saying "very little" needs to be done is a bit misleading, it can get expensive in a hurry.

And we haven't even talked about the brakes yet.

I vote for buying instead of building, you will save yourself a lot of money. But with that said I have had a hard time finding a prepped track car this winter, so a question to the GM community.

Where would someone looking for a prepped track car look for such a vehicle? I have been searching for miata/e30 or any RWD track car without much luck.

Tom - Good points. Yes, the suspension can get extremely expensive extremely quickly. I know the Track Box with everything you could possibly need is over $5k. Yes, brakes suck. LOL SN95 spindles are a must and you can swap 94+ brakes on there relatively inexpensively, but it also leaves the availability to run MUCH larger and better brake systems. Rear disc conversion is a must as well. I had forgotten about the 7.5 rear in the 85's.

Jonnyd330 - you make a REALLY good point. Buying a pre-built car will be much less expensive since someone's already bought all the parts, did all the work, and hopefully sorted it out. LOL Good call.

jonnyd330 wrote: I vote for buying instead of building, you will save yourself a lot of money. But with that said I have had a hard time finding a prepped track car this winter, so a question to the GM community. Where would someone looking for a prepped track car look for such a vehicle? I have been searching for miata/e30 or any RWD track car without much luck.

Eager to hear the answer to this question to. I'm thinking about a dual purpose 3rd car/track car and would love to buy something most or all of the way there already. I have a few forums I shop on but could use some new ideas/destinations to look.

For instance, the Condor guys posted this photo recently. I love this car!

In reply to dyintorace:

Did you sell your miata or do you still have it?

dyintorace wrote:

jonnyd330 wrote: I vote for buying instead of building, you will save yourself a lot of money. But with that said I have had a hard time finding a prepped track car this winter, so a question to the GM community. Where would someone looking for a prepped track car look for such a vehicle? I have been searching for miata/e30 or any RWD track car without much luck.

Eager to hear the answer to this question to. I'm thinking about a dual purpose 3rd car/track car and would love to buy something most or all of the way there already. I have a few forums I shop on but could use some new ideas/destinations to look.

It's a shame there isn't a GRM Classifieds section anymore...

I also second finding a pre-built car if you can. I orginally bought my E30 to be a track rat, but the car is just too damn nice and I don't want to tear it apart for a cage or risk balling it up. Of course, the car I'm tentatively planning to replace it with flies against much of the advice given here, but I have my reasons...

Geekspeed wrote: Ah, yes, consumables. Very good point. That puts a kink in a lot of cars and it actually makes the lighter vehicles much more attractive. Tires for a Mustang are going to be much more than those for a VW, for example. That may end up being the deciding factor. I would much rather have a track car that I can afford to run and maintain over one that is going to require a lot more cash outlay, even if that means going FWD.

Also remember you are gonna break stuff. So far after about 6 weekends, I already burnt through a set of front wheel bearings and didnt catch it before the heat snapped the threaded end of my halfshaft off while on track. That set me back about $300 replacing the axles, bearings, and hubs. So expect that you will break stuff. Bouncing off of the turn 3 apex at Road Atlanta and the kink at CMP is to blame for that stuff I am sure.

Oh, and as others said, buying is so much better than building not only for the cost but also someone else has had to deal with most of the headaches already.

What about a cheaper purpose built racecar eg Formula Vee?

1. low cost of consumables.
2. spec car

Ian F wrote: It's a shame there isn't a GRM Classifieds section anymore...

QFT. That section was one of the best reasons to frequent this forum. I visit racingjunk.com exactly never.

My only input is BUY a car, don't BUILD one if the goal is cheap track rat. (Do as i say, not as i do)

I'm partial to Escorts/Protege/Tracer/323s, MX3/MX6/Probes, Celicas, etc.

All have enough aftermarket to get you moving quickly and cheaply. All are cheap to buy. All are reliable. All will be easy on consumables. All have the potential to go above and beyond the point where FWD makes sense if you decide to get crazy down the road.

Hondas are never really a bad choice for this, either. The suspension just works.

Here's one out of left field: FWD Corolla. Any from 88 through the end of the 90s.

dyintorace wrote:

Ian F wrote: It's a shame there isn't a GRM Classifieds section anymore...

QFT. That section was one of the best reasons to frequent this forum. I visit racingjunk.com exactly never.

Myself included. RacingJunk

944's are pretty cheap to run and maintain as long as you get one that HAS been maintained.

If not, you're going to spend a ton of cash taking care of deferred maintenance...

944's are pretty cheap to run and maintain as long as you get one that HAS been maintained.

If not, you're going to spend a ton of cash taking care of deferred maintenance...

jonnyd330 wrote:

dyintorace wrote:

Ian F wrote: It's a shame there isn't a GRM Classifieds section anymore...

QFT. That section was one of the best reasons to frequent this forum. I visit racingjunk.com exactly never.

Myself included. RacingJunk

Never pointed my browser to that site either...

"I would much rather have a track car that I can afford to run and maintain over one that is going to require a lot more cash outlay, even if that means going FWD."

That fact that you say this now means you're already ahead of the curve.

I vote Integra over Civic, because you get equal-length halfshafts and DOHC, rear disk brakes and slightly larger front brakes, all at a (very) modest weight increase. And most of that extra weight can be stripped back out.

The world is awash in 4x100 15x7 wheels and 205/50s are super cheap.

steronz wrote: I vote Integra over Civic, because you get equal-length halfshafts and DOHC, rear disk brakes and slightly larger front brakes, all at a (very) modest weight increase. And most of that extra weight can be stripped back out. The world is awash in 4x100 15x7 wheels and 205/50s are super cheap.

Yeah, yeah... just rub salt in the wound... I often wonder how much more simple my life might be now if I'd kept my '90 Integra back in 2002 and turned it into a track/auto-x car...