irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:Seems like a Subaru Forester checks all your boxes.
Except reliability.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:Seems like a Subaru Forester checks all your boxes.
Except reliability.
I did some riding this weekend and took my mountain biking tote with me (rented a bike). Even opening the top of the tote in the back of the Veloster was a pain in the butt. I'm betting this is similar (but probably not as bad) with a CMAX or Soul due to the short length of the cargo area. I'll make a mental note to bring one with me when I go look at an example of each.
STM317 said:Roof racks kill aerodynamic efficiency over the car and reduce mileage. So I'd be surprised if many dedicated hybrids are designed for them up front. That's one area where a CUV hybrid (Ecsape, Rav 4, is there a hybrid Kia Soul?) probably makes more sense since it's based on a more utilitarian vehicle.
If I were king, ALL cars with a roof would have provisions for roof racks. Doesn't need to be rails or anything, just a few bolt holes that come plugged from the factory. Or a point designed to accept a bracket to clamp down. Or something.
Same goes with a 1/4" hole in the top of the dash for phone/tablet/etc, mounting, and a 2" hitch reciever in the center of the bumper (which again could be covered for those who don't use it).
Questions:
1) It looks like the years I am looking at for the Escape overlap with Ford SYNC. Should I run away? Will this make swapping head units impossible?
2) Functionally, does an Escape Hybrid have less interior space (battery in the cargo area like a Camry)? These things appear to be quite robust (like several >500K mile examples in Taxi service in NYC). And they get good mileage. I can potentially get better mileage with AWD than a standard 2.5L FWD. I have been trying to find out if there are parts availability issues to confirm what John said earlier, but haven't see much. There is certainly not a very active online community for these so information is difficult to find.
Continuing my thread talking to myself... it appears Ford Escape front passneger seat does not fold down flat :( Not a dealbreaker, but I recall the VUE I had doing this and it is certainly handy when you want to carry lumber.
Go ahead and rub it in, Element guys :P
I'm still looking around, haven't jumped on anything yet. Made an inquiry at a few dealers to see if they will give me enough on a trade in to simplify the process. I would sacrifice a little $ to avoid the hassle of selling my car myself. I've never done a trade in before so I'm just testing the waters.
In reply to ProDarwin :
What did you really dislike about the element? I've not driven a manual equipped Element, but I've driven a 2004 automatic CR-V many times and found the experience mostly good.
clutchsmoke said:In reply to ProDarwin :
What did you really dislike about the element? I've not driven a manual equipped Element, but I've driven a 2004 automatic CR-V many times and found the experience mostly good.
Probably the biggest thing I dislike about it at this point is the price tag. They are like double the cost of the other cars I am looking at and only 1/10th as common. There is 1 element listed with <200k miles in a 60 mile radius and they are asking $11K
I'm looking at some CRVs though too. They carry a bit of a premium, but nothing like the Element.
One concern I have about both of those is parts cost. I HATED the Odyssey we had and one reason was the cost of parts. And non-OEM parts were complete garbage.
Test Drive Updates:
1) Ford Escape. Test drove a 2011, FWD Auto 4cyl with 90k miles. It certainly did not wow me. The driver's seat bolster was worn very badly, which from photos appears common with these things. The suspension felt a little loose and disconnected. I'm sure new dampers would've helped, but certainly not 'solved' the problem. The trans was pretty terrible. Clunky downshifts once in a while, but when you stepped on it it was very slow to drop and grab a gear and was generally pretty unhelpful. It reminded me a lot of the trans in my '98 Saturn, and that is not a good thing.
On the positive side the A/C was incredible. The utility factor is high. Lots of cargo space, good robust roof rack, etc.
2) Kia Soul 2014 Manual with 82k miles. Manual souls are base base base base models. 1.6L 120hp. That said, I'm not sure what features I would want that weren't on the car. It has A/C, heat, radio, power windows & locks, etc. I can't imagine what is missing aside from a touchscreen and heated seats. I expected this thing to be a complete turd out on the road. And acceleration wise, it kind of is if you are below like 3k rpm. But, drive it like its sporty and it does quite well. The engine and trans are plenty responsive. It could use some more audible feedback from the engine and/or a bigger tach (2k-4k on the tach is a very small difference out of the corner of your eye). It felt 10x as tight and well put together as the Ford. It was borderline fun to drive. A/C seemed decent but not incredible. I'd like to drive another to evaluate this.
Utility factor is not as high, but its decent. I am looking into roof rack & hitch options for it to see what is feasible. It's more promising than I initially gave it credit for, that's for sure.
3) Kia Sorento. I wasn't hunting for this, but they got one of these in on trade and wanted me to have a look. As its my day off and I wasn't in a rush I took it for a spin. 2013 2.0L auto AWD with 115k on it and a brand new motor due to a recall. Like driving a bank vault. Quiet, comfortable, rigid. But also big, poor gas mileage, etc. Not exactly what I am looking for, but the quality of the car after 7 years and 115k impressed me.
Found a resonably priced '06 CRV manual in town, but dealer did not respond to me. Hope to get a chance to check that out sometime soon.
I do want to circle back and ask... Jeep Patriot, was there a consensus on these? Should I bother test driving? They seem pretty low-rent on the inside, but they seem to 90% of the utility of the escape (a little smaller inside), but be more of a car chassis (Caliber) vs the escape. I had one as a rental a while back but it was new so I'm not really sure that experience is representative of ownership.
If you're not rejecting the Element out of hand, I just saw a manual trans Element in the front line of a local (and somewhat reputable) used lot not far from here in northern Delaware. 2008 / 124,000 miles / $7995 asking. If you want me to go check its vitals, I'd be happy to.
About 10 minutes off of I-95 a little south of the Delaware Memorial Bridge. Maybe 30 minutes Uber ride from Philly airport.
Thanks but no thanks. Not interested in something that far away (I know shipping is a thing), especially something that has lived in the salt of the NE.
Also, holy moly, is their mileage that terrible? 18/22. berkeley.
Delaware is not as bad as the surounding states, but I get your point.
Duke said:Delaware is not as bad as the surounding states, but I get your point.
True, but both the owners of that car had it registered in PA.
I drove a patriot rental a few years back. I couldn't wait to get out of it. It wasn't uncomfortable, it didn't drive bad, but it felt like you were driving it from the back seat.
If you're considering the Kia Soul, what about a 2nd gen Honda Fit?
Manual CX-5? I think it would check all your boxes..
Didn't Ashyukun buy a Patriot, and then found that the whole front subframe had rusted out in like 6 years? They put a bunch of work into it, and then dumped it?
sleepyhead the buffalo said:Didn't Ashyukun buy a Patriot, and then found that the whole front subframe had rusted out in like 6 years? They put a bunch of work into it, and then dumped it?
This search continues to go poorly.
This week I was going to look at a 2019 Soul with 18k miles on it for $10k. I made an appointment and it was sold earlier that day. No big deal, but I would have appreciated a heads up before I drove out to the dealer.
Today I was going to look at a 35k mile soul for $10k. Made an appointment but it was sold earlier in the day. Again, not a big deal, but would have appreciated the heads up.
That's a total of ~4 hours in the car wasted.
Drove a different 65k mile Soul later in the day (it was on my way back from the other dealer). I was a bit underwhelmed this time. Perhaps last time I was excited because it drove so much better than the Escape. This one was back to back with my Veloster. This one still felt solid and overall wasn't miserable, but the way it drove was pretty dull. The clutch has zero feel, the tach is small and you can't hear/feel the engine whatsoever, which makes an underpowered manual car a bit difficult to deal with. Secondary road speeds it was fine, but I hopped on the interstate and I really had to put the engine to work hard to merge and get up to speed. It was noticeable because the A/C cuts off when you are @ WOT, and I spent a lot of time without A/C 
Anyway, despite being underwhelmed, I would have been interested for the right price. It was a $7500 listing. I inquired about their fees and there was a $795 dealer fee + $199 doc fee + $750 some sort of interior or exterior protection package which is not optional. Add taxes and tags and it would've been over $10k which is WAY more than I would have considered.
Right now I am a bit bummed and thinking I might be on the wrong path. Considering setting some alerts for Mazda 3 hatchbacks and just seeing what comes up. They don't quite meet my criteria, but I learned they DO have fixed point roof rack mounts, which is a good thing. Hitch solution is less than ideal with one, but I might be able to make something work, or just take it to a shop and have them modify a hitch to my liking.
I have been trying to find a decent Mazda 3 6spd hatchback, not having much luck. They seem to be a lot more rare than I was expecting. Still keeping my eye out.
Someone earlier suggested the Focus ST. What about a normal (manual) Focus hatch? These things seem to have terrible reliability ratings, but from what I can tell that's more of a blanket rating that is destroyed by the horrible automatic trans failures.
A 2013 with 120k on it popped up for under $5k and it looks pretty clean. Right in the price/mileage range I am looking at. 2" hitches are available for these. I seem to see fixed point roof racks as a possibility on these but hard to confirm. Either way at this price/mileage I think I would feel comfortable installing the rhino gutter mounts.
A friend of mine bought a retired FedEx van for right around $5k. Came with rear shelf system, rear AC and all the hauling space you'll need. Not sure that I would be interested driving it every day, but he doesn't mind.
ProDarwin said:I have been trying to find a decent Mazda 3 6spd hatchback, not having much luck. They seem to be a lot more rare than I was expecting. Still keeping my eye out.
Someone earlier suggested the Focus ST. What about a normal (manual) Focus hatch? These things seem to have terrible reliability ratings, but from what I can tell that's more of a blanket rating that is destroyed by the horrible automatic trans failures.
A 2013 with 120k on it popped up for under $5k and it looks pretty clean. Right in the price/mileage range I am looking at. 2" hitches are available for these. I seem to see fixed point roof racks as a possibility on these but hard to confirm. Either way at this price/mileage I think I would feel comfortable installing the rhino gutter mounts.
A friend of mine had a Focus hatch around that year and he traded it in with around 120k on it due to nickel and diming starting. Other than that, I don't think he had any issues with it. He ended up getting rid of it for an 07 Wrangler.
I test drove a non-ST third-gen Focus with a MT and the Titanium sport package about a year ago. It had the sexy five spoke 17x8s on it. Leather interior. I found myself really liking it.
It wasn't fast but was quick enough. It felt a lot like the Mazda 3 I test drove around the same time. It did seem to understeer a bit more, but was every bit as sporty in my opinion. The turn-in might have even been quicker than the 3.
I remember the research I did at the time showed they were pretty reliable if you don't have the DCT. I didn't end up buying it, but that was due to deciding I didn't want to spend as much as they were asking (7k IIRC).
I thought I would update this: I'm driving a 2013 Soul 2.0 6spd I picked up off someone from another forum. I've had it for around 12k miles. It gets the job done, but its otherwise pretty bad. I'm looking to get out. I also grossly underestimated how much I hate driving a tall vehicle. I know I could work a little to correct that with this car, but given the other issues/poor quality I dont think its worth doing anything with.
I've been watching for a 2.5 6spd Mazda 3 Hatch for a while and they are still crazy rare. I see 1 within 100 miles of me at a buy here pay here lot. Anyone know the trick to finding one of these? Do all of them have sunroofs?
How crazy am I to consider a ~2010/11 Speed3? These are actually more common. I've seen a few clean (stock) examples pop up for $10k with ~100k on them. Would I hate myself when it gets 15mpg on premium everywhere? I'm wondering if I drove a stock one and kept it stock if it would really depreciate much over 3-5 years and 40-60k miles.
It seems like a Focus is the only other hatchback with similar utility?
What about a transit connect?
ProDarwin said:I've been watching for a 2.5 6spd Mazda 3 Hatch for a while and they are still crazy rare. I see 1 within 100 miles of me at a buy here pay here lot. Anyone know the trick to finding one of these? Do all of them have sunroofs?
Dunno about sunroofs. But, afaik, any 2010+ 's' hatchback with a manual should be 2.5L and a 6speed.
ProDarwin said:It seems like a Focus is the only other hatchback with similar utility?
Another thought, would be to look for the 5spd 2.0i Impreza wagon?
Edit: or maybe a Forrester, and drop it down on Impreza suspension?
sleepyhead the buffalo said:ProDarwin said:I've been watching for a 2.5 6spd Mazda 3 Hatch for a while and they are still crazy rare. I see 1 within 100 miles of me at a buy here pay here lot. Anyone know the trick to finding one of these? Do all of them have sunroofs?
Dunno about sunroofs. But, afaik, any 2010+ 's' hatchback with a manual should be 2.5L and a 6speed.
Of the 2nd gen maybe. Every 3rd gen I have seen is the 2.0, although according to wikipedia the 2.5 exists (and makes a decent amount more power)
Edit: I did find a few of these within 500 miles. They could be an option, but holy hell they are holding their value. The lower end of the used car market doesn't seem to be this nuts.
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